Mitt: Polygamy "bizarre" & other gems

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_TAK
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Re: Mitt: Polygamy "bizarre" & other gems

Post by _TAK »

Jason Bourne wrote:
TAK wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Also, he siad he would put country first. So he said as president that essentially would be ahead of his temple covenants. Maybe he thinkls the contituttion by the thread idea is bunk too. By the way, I am not sure that was even a prohecy. I believe Joseph Smith said it would hang by a thread and is is is to be saved at all it would be by the Elders of the church. The key is "IF"


If Mitt is willing to "put country first" then he is a liar ..

he took an oath in the temple to "consecrate (his) ... time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed.., or with which he may bless.., to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion "

At the least he needs to renounce that oath..


Oh get off it. Both you and Rollo. he can put country first and still be a good temple Mormon.

I can see Mitt's biggest enemies will not be evangelicals but bitter angry ex Mormons.


If Mitt can not keep the oath he took to the momon church .. err god, then how can we expect him he be trusted to keep the Oath of the President??

I wonder if the real reason many TBMs want to see Romney elected is that maybe it will legitimize themselves being members of a religion often perceived as a tad wacky.. In otherwords they are just dying to be considered normal.

by the way.. I am not bitter but am an EX..
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Anyone else get the feeling that Coggins/Plutarch/Enter the Dragon/Bishop Lee/etc. has a burr up his backside where it comes to liberals?

Did one scare you when you were a kid or something?



No, its just that liberalism (Leftism/Socialism) is a hideous philosophy that opposes every aspect of both classical liberalism and the principles of the gospel, including the overarching Judeo/Christian moral standards and norms that form the foundation of a free, civil society.

Everything the left believes in: the supremacy of the state, collective guilt, collective responsibility, and collective consciousness; the primacy of the group over the individual (except in the areas of sexuality, drug use, and mitigation of the consequences of personal behavior), egalitarianism of condition, the leveling of excellence, brilliance, and human uniqueness to a medain average, economic collectivism, the animus toward property rights, wealth creation (except their own), and business; their neo-primitivist romanticization of nature and traditional peoples and their lifestyles, their irresponsible and immoral pacifism, their moral relativism and, in more recent years, epistmeological nihlism, all of this did, yes, scare me as a youth. It still scares me, but on an intellectual level I don't know whether to laugh or to cry when seriously analyzing the claims of its proponents.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Mitt: Polygamy "bizarre" & other gems

Post by _Jason Bourne »

TAK wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
TAK wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
Also, he siad he would put country first. So he said as president that essentially would be ahead of his temple covenants. Maybe he thinkls the contituttion by the thread idea is bunk too. By the way, I am not sure that was even a prohecy. I believe Joseph Smith said it would hang by a thread and is is is to be saved at all it would be by the Elders of the church. The key is "IF"


If Mitt is willing to "put country first" then he is a liar ..

he took an oath in the temple to "consecrate (his) ... time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed.., or with which he may bless.., to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion "

At the least he needs to renounce that oath..


Oh get off it. Both you and Rollo. he can put country first and still be a good temple Mormon.

I can see Mitt's biggest enemies will not be evangelicals but bitter angry ex Mormons.


If Mitt can not keep the oath he took to the momon church .. err god, then how can we expect him he be trusted to keep the Oath of the President??

I wonder if the real reason many TBMs want to see Romney elected is that maybe it will legitimize themselves being members of a religion often perceived as a tad wacky.. In otherwords they are just dying to be considered normal.

by the way.. I am not bitter but am an EX..


My support of Mitt is mainly because I like his politic and what he has done as Gov. of Mass. Out of all the repubilcan candidates I think he represents the best of what it means to be a republican, Do I think it would be cool to have a Mormon president? Sure, because of my cultural background. But I do not consider myself TBM the way it is used here. I think that your comment on Mormons needing legitimizing and having a Mormon president will do that, is silly.
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

If Mitt can not keep the oath he took to the momon church .. err god, then how can we expect him he be trusted to keep the Oath of the President??

I wonder if the real reason many TBMs want to see Romney elected is that maybe it will legitimize themselves being members of a religion often perceived as a tad wacky.. In otherwords they are just dying to be considered normal.

by the way.. I am not bitter but am an EX..



Oh man, this is really, really rich. This is what mindless, blind hatred can do to otherwise normal, intelligent people. The Devil is indeed, a harsh taskmaster.

The point all of us "TBMs" here have been trying to make all along, and which the quote used above verifies, is that there is nothing whatsoever in the oaths taken in the Temple that are incongruent with supporting and defending the constitution as a President, senator, or any other kind of public servant.

There is nothing in consecrating ones time, talent's and personal abilities to Zion that connot be easily reconciled with the office and duties of the presidency of the United States. Indeed, the very limited responsibilities actually given to the government, and the basic unalianable rights the protection of which are the core function of government, are so general and delimited in scope that it would be difficult for a faithful Mormon President to find any inconsistencies between the oaths of the Temple and his service as President if he wanted to.

Now, when one begins inserting one's own ideological wish list of changes to American culture, institutions, mores, norms, and economic life that many would like to see enacted, and clutters American political and cultural life with all manner of chaff, the situtation changes. Then, a conservative Mormon President, as he vetoes legislation or disciplines a rogue Supreme Court, comes under assault because it is perceived that his religious principles are animating his politics. And one would be right. However, there is:

1. Nothing wrong with this in either a constitutional or moral sense whatever.

2. Nothing in the Temple oaths has any bearing on fundamental constitutional principles, as the constitution itself has very little bearing on probably 80% of what modern American government does, and what many Americans would like that government to do.

For the constitution and the Temple oaths to collide, there would have to be an intersection for them to meet; there would have to be a contratiction between dedicating all one's time, talents, and skills to Zion, and serving four or eight years as President in support of a constitution, almost the entire text of which is a protection of the people from government and severe limitations upon the same. I am at a loss to understand how supporting Zion (the pure in heart; morality, ethics, respect for the free will of others, chastity, humility, personal integrity, all attributes one would think politicians, of all people, should strive to have) and supporting and defending the constitution (a document that severely limits what the state can do and involve itself in relative to the lives of American citizens and which features a bill of rights further restricting government interference in economic, social, and political life (including a first amendment that prohibits govenment from making "any laws" regarding a number or fundamental social and poltical rights that have in the last half of the last century become a frothing battleground abounding in laws, rules, and regulations coming from various branches of government)), which, whatever else it is, is not a document to which Americans were ever intended to swear loyalty to over all else.

It is a legal document whose primary purpose is to protect the unalienable rights of the people from the state itself, as well as from the tyranny of both the majority and minority. What liberals really fear about Romney is support for the overturning or truncation of various sacred cows that have no constitutional basis in the first place but which are ideologically beloved. Romney could dismantle vast areas of the modern federal govenment without in the slightest way coming into conflict with the constitution, whether or not such action was animated by religious or purely (say, Libertarian) principles.

This is, as we see repeatedly, a purly manufactured argument that has no real intellectua content.
_TAK
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Post by _TAK »

Coggins7 wrote:
Lee:
Blah blah blah..

This is, as we see repeatedly, a purly manufactured argument that has no real intellectua content.


This is, as I see it will be decided by people in Iowa, South Carolina, Ohio and elsewhere ..

Edit..
by the way You DO check under the bed everynight? Right??
Last edited by Maureen on Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

Coggins7 wrote:
Anyone else get the feeling that Coggins/Plutarch/Enter the Dragon/Bishop Lee/etc. has a burr up his backside where it comes to liberals?

Did one scare you when you were a kid or something?



No, its just that liberalism (Leftism/Socialism) is a hideous philosophy that opposes every aspect of both classical liberalism and the principles of the gospel, including the overarching Judeo/Christian moral standards and norms that form the foundation of a free, civil society.

Everything the left believes in: the supremacy of the state, collective guilt, collective responsibility, and collective consciousness; the primacy of the group over the individual (except in the areas of sexuality, drug use, and mitigation of the consequences of personal behavior), egalitarianism of condition, the leveling of excellence, brilliance, and human uniqueness to a medain average, economic collectivism, the animus toward property rights, wealth creation (except their own), and business; their neo-primitivist romanticization of nature and traditional peoples and their lifestyles, their irresponsible and immoral pacifism, their moral relativism and, in more recent years, epistmeological nihlism, all of this did, yes, scare me as a youth. It still scares me, but on an intellectual level I don't know whether to laugh or to cry when seriously analyzing the claims of its proponents.


Can we just do away with the formalities and award this post as the most irrational, laughably stereotypical, ignorant post of all time?
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Here's a poem written by Harold B. Lee which was a tribute to his deceased wife Fern and his second, living wife Joan, expressing the hope of their eternal relationship together.


"For Fern, the great love of my life
Whose selfless devotion and humility
Inspire me to live from 'dawn of day to
dark of night'
A better man.
I worship at your shrine.

As life moved on with rapid pace
My lovely Joan was sent to me;
So Joan joins Fern
That three might be, more fitted for
eternity.
'O Heavenly Father, my thanks to thee.' "




Ye olde celestial three-way.


Now, here's a poen written by Fester J. Cheesebreath to all the exmos and little people without which none of this would have been possible:

For exmos, the slakers of my thirst for hate
Whose circumlocutions of cogency
enclose my sordid fate
In darkess deep
My CNS asleep
I prostrate myself at D. Quinn's feet.

As Rollo, Scratch, and Harmony
The ERA was meant to be
A ring through the nose of constitutionality
Now I join them all
For a compassionate and sensitive bacchinal
That we all might be
trendy and fashionable and very PC
existentially.
_Maxrep
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Post by _Maxrep »

Perhaps Mitt was feeling reminiscent of the 80's, and pulled the descriptive adjective from the song titled " Bizzare love Triangle ". Fitting, don't you think?

bcspace wrote:Of course he did not say exactly what it was about plural marriage he thought bizzare,


Would you have prefered he gave an in depth description of why he thought the practice bizzare? That would have been interesting!

leaving open the possibility that he believes only some of the actions that happened back then (such as by apostates) were bizzare.


that's quite a generous stretch there! As if he must surely have given his blessings to all of Joseph's relationships with women.

If later on down the road, he makes that distinction, then perhaps he is truly LDS after all on that issue.


Oh my, a reach like that might cause one to pull something.
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Sure it does. Here, on the one hand, we have a doctrine that remains in the canon as well as being recognized in the express and official policy that allows for a man to practice the doctrine under certain circumstances, and, on the other hand, you have a former SP and bishop and descendant of polygamists, now running for president, declaring that said doctrine and official policy is "bizarre."


All Christians, of whatever denomination or background are wedded to Plural Marriage whether or not they like that state of affairs becasue of the very real fact that a number of the most revered individuals in the text of the Old Testament practiced it, with the either clear or implied acceptance of God.

Abraham practiced it, Issiac practiced it, Jacob (Israel) practiced it, Moses practiced it, King David (Under auspices of Nathan) practiced it, and it was assumed under Mosaic law. What Rollo is really therefore doing is disallowing both Christians and Jews per se any active participation in the political life of their country (precisely what liberals have been trying to acheive for decades). Further, he has still provided not a single logical argument or cogent reason why such a theological concept would have anything to do with serving in public office.

Quote:
That'a a theological issue, not a political one, as would be the case if Mormons were still actually practicing polygamy, as you, in your usual sneaky little lingusitic way, using the term polygamy and referencing it to what appeared to be a present Mormon practice, when what you meant was a theologicl principle regarding life in another, post mortal sphere of existence.

Last time I looked temple marriage is for "time and eternity." Elders Oaks and Nelson consider themselves to have two current wives (one dead, one alive). As you well know, there is no "til death do we part" contingency in the temple wedding ceremony. Such men may be having sexual relations with only one of those wives, but they are indeed married (under LDS doctrine) to both women, now and forever.


I'm still waiting for you to answer the "so what" aspect of this endless miasma.
_rcrocket

Post by _rcrocket »

guy sajer wrote:Anyone else get the feeling that Coggins/Plutarch/Enter the Dragon/Bishop Lee/etc. has a burr up his backside where it comes to liberals?

Did one scare you when you were a kid or something?


Your all-consuming hatred of well-spoken members of the Church who can write and hold a job is amazing.

I am a left-wing liberal. My second cousin is Mitt Romney but I support (not just soulfully, but with my wallet) Bill Richardson, and if he fails, I will support Hillary Clinton. Where you got the idea that I was a right-winger is just beyond me. You just make sure you ascribe things you hate to good members of the Church.

Getting kicked out of BYU because you were unable to make tenure has done wonders for your spirit.

P
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