ajax18 wrote:Ray have you gotten any information on the idea of a universal resurrection? I know people don't want to go back to their bodies, but what conclusion have you come to?
I don't know of any NDE experincers who have spoken of resurrection. Maybe Quantumwave does, as he's quite knowledgeable in this field as well. Here is a excerpt from Kevin Williams' site which may help (My emphases):
Faulty religious doctrines: Within some religions are various sects or denominations that are often based upon the magnification of some particular religious doctrine. Below are some insights about this:
(1)
Some Christians expect heaven to be a place where people stand in front of the throne, worshipping forever. Such a view of heaven is boring and childlike. There are so many heavenly realms and in each of them there is a fractal that is your particular interpretation, unless you are part of the group soul that believes in only the God of a particular religion. (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)
(2)
Insincere prayers of repetition have little, if any, light. These, having no power, are not heard. But there is no prayer greater than that of a mother for her children. (Betty Eadie)
(3)
The belief that we are separate from God is the only real sin. (Dr. PMH Atwater)
(4)
When we die, there is no so-called Judgment Day involving the hellfire and brimstone that is described in the Bible. God judges no one. The only judgment is self-judgment. (Sherry Gideon)
(5)
We do not sit at the feet of a man with a long white beard called God.�God is within, whether you are in or out of the body. (Betty Bethards)
(6)
There is no doctrine and no belief to pursue other than knowing that the Being of Light is God. (Norman Paulsen)
(7)
When we enter the spirit realm, we are given glimpses of things we expected to see in order to bring us comfort.�We may briefly see a teacher we worshipped in our lifetime: Jesus, Buddha, or another guru, according to your expectations. But gently we are brought out of many of our illusions and are shown that we have not landed in an ultimate paradise with gold paved streets. (Betty Bethards)
(8)
It is not true, as some people think, that if we only give verbal assent to belief in God, that is our passport to heaven and everything will be all right. Not so. God helps those who help themselves. (Margaret Tweddell)
(9)
We do not go to heaven by worshipping Jesus, or by believing in his name, or by believing in his work on the cross, or by accepting him as our Savior. The way to heaven is through love. God is love. We grow to heaven by allowing love to grow in our hearts and create heaven within us by practicing unconditional love. (Kevin Williams)
(10)
Being a Christian is not enough to attain heaven. We grow to heaven by emulating the love of Jesus rather than by worshipping Jesus. (Kevin Williams)
(11)
If you insist upon searching for God, you will do this for a while until you get the idea that you are following an illusion. God is love in all religions, so the more we live love the closer we are to God. (Betty Bethards)
(12)
Religious beliefs can limit an open mind. Any belief such as soul sleep, God on a throne, angels with wings, the trinity, etc. etc., is initially carried over at the time of death, but very soon, all beliefs that don't correlate with afterlife reality will just simply not be believed anymore. This is all a process of instruction. (Kevin Williams)
The resurrection is religious mythology, that's my opinion. We are part of a universal consciousness, and though we presently perceive ourselves as individuals in, well basically, animal bodies (we share 99% of our bological makeup with chimps, and chimpanzees are closer biologically to humans than they are to gorillas), everything in the universe is really ONE. Once again I think Buddhism is the religion that comes closest to this idea, and Buddhism has no concept of resurrection. If you'd like to read a good book covering this topic I recommend Darryl Reanney's The Death of Forever: A New Future for Human Consciousness. He has written a couple of books on speculative metaphysics, which you can find Here
Reanney started out as a skeptic, wanting to critique "fluffy" ideas about an afterlife and the possible survival of death, and some ten years later had a complete change of heart. He was an internationally recognised authority on the origin of life, and a microbiologist who taught biochemistry at the University of Canterbury in New Zealand, and at LaTrobe University in Australia, and hosted the ABC program "Genesis", a seven part series about genes and evolution. He admitted that he may have gone too far with speculation for the tastes of "empirical science", but his change of ideas, I think, was significant. Here is what one commentator said:
After Death, A New Future for Human Consciousness by Darryl Reanney
I saved this book for last because it is my all time favorite text on the subject of death. Unfortunately for the planet Darryl Reanney died of leukemia while working on his second book so we will not have the benefit of his thoughtful and painstakingly exact logic on this subject again. However, as a molecular biologist his study of death covers physiological, psychological, historical, philosophical and cosmological aspects. It is one of the most beautiful and elegant presentations of man's thinking on the subject and his analytical structure and conscientious word style allows any novice thinker to follow his train of thought and ponder along the way. I have read this book many times and intend to continue to do so. My hope is that anyone with an interest or a fear in the business of life will take time to read this book about death.
I too recommend The Death of Forever, but I have not read Music of the Mind. This link may help you to understand more about Reanney: http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/actuali ... eanney.htm
And a quote from the book:
Now, however, we reach the threshold of the truly mysterious, for we must look to the far reaches of physics, to the paradox-ridden realms of the very small and the very large. There await us bejewelled creatures, strange beyond dreaming, that are born of the highest faculties of the human mind. In this mirror, we will see almost nothing we recognize. Does this mean that we are abandoning reality for illusion? Not at all: we are doing just the reverse. In reaching this far into the realm of the invisible, away from the homely metaphors of everyday life, we are approaching reality. We must not complain if we find it strange. Indeed, it is this very strangeness that tells us that we are ‘on the right track’. When science was young common sense was our guide. The model of the world we built up from new discoveries was based on familiar objects – clocks, pistons, billiard balls. As science has progressed through its great conceptual revolutions – relativity, quantum mechanics, super symmetry – its discoveries have become more exotic, more remote from everyday experience. Easily recognizable images based on familiar things have given way to abstract theorems which tell of particles moving backwards in time, of a universe structured in eleven dimensions and so on. During this process, the status of common sense has been inverted: no longer our guide in the search for truth, it has become our adversary. D. Reanney, The Death of Forever – A New Future for Human Consciousness. Longman 1991, p. 138
This is the problem I see: Religions teach totally fanciful mythologies, and science is often too blind to new discoveries which could completely overturn our understanding of the universe. It seems at the moment to be an unhealthy choice, religious mythology, or "nihilistic science", when you are dead, that is the total end of you. I find both extremes lacking, and depressing to some extent, and not open to new ideas as Reanney was.
From my studies, I don't believe in a resurrection, but I DO believe that human consciousness survives death. Who we are is not just a body of flesh. We are mind, spirit, and intelligence. Our bodies are "vechicles of expression" on many, many different levels, from animals to humans. The problem with religion is that it basically feeds the ego, not the healthy ego, but the self-seeking ego hooked on what is called "maya", or "the illusion", because in the end material possessions, fame, wealth or status, will mean absolutely nothing, including tryng to prove one's religion "right". This is just more status seeking. The only thing that will matter is how we connect to the universe and improve through learning and loving. I believe that religions, and many "sacred" writings, are just there as primers, and some reflect the darker side of human nature. "Chosen people", "only true churches", "only truths", are just a manifestation of EGO, and these lead to contentions and hypocrisy. This is where I do believe that religion can actually make good people BAD. Their ego feeds on being "right", and seeing their fellow human beings suffer for not making "the right choice". I find this type of thinking to be abject stupidity, and conducive to human devolution, not evolution. We must rise above our narrow sectarian agendas, and even our narrow "empirical science" ideas, and start to think like Darryl Reanney, open to a future we can scarcely even now imagine. As Paul Davies said, we are not here by mistake, we are here for a purpose. The universe has meaning and direction, and we are like children trying to discover it. Everything in life has meaning, even all that we suffer. But I guess I'm getting too much like Reanney now, thinking that we can go beyond narrow paradigms.
I am, in the end, an optimist, and I believe that our lives have purpose, and we are not here by accident, and each of us is part of a growing and evolving universe, even if we have not yet "got the picture". We will never "get it" through silly religious fundamentalism, or dead end "empirical" dogmas.