maklelan wrote:Mister Scratch wrote:But you haven't fully explained what your "actual experience" is.... I asked you to provide documentation that the GAs are paid an annual stipend of $30,000 and you have not done that. I asked you why you thought your MP was in a position to know all of the details of the Brethren's finances, and you have not done that. Further complicating matters is your apparent insistence upon (or agreement with) statements that "we cannot know" anything about Church finances... Why say this if you feel confident in your "actual experience"?
Thank you so much for this elaboration, Mak. I appreciate it greatly. Let me break it down a bit, in the hopes of getting some further explanation.
My mission president worked over the church's welfare program under the presidency of President Kimball. In fact, as I understand it, he developed many of the systems in use today. He is a consultant by trade. After that he supervised tithing for the entire church.
I am not sure what this means. How does one "supervise tithing for the entire Church"? Also, since there is some division (so far as I know) between the U.S. Church and the Church elsewhere in the world, does this mean that he "supervised" tithing for the whole world? Does "supervise" mean that he merely logged in all the tithing? Or did he see how it was spent? I guess the bottom line is that "supervise" seems a rather vague term.
He worked in Salt Lake and oversaw the administration of tithing from the top.
Again, does "oversaw the administration" mean that he knew how it was being spent? Also, does this mean he told you how much the Brethren make?
He has worked directly with the First Presidency since his position under President Kimball. One day I was waiting for him to get off the phone with someone he was calling "Tommy" only to find out it was President Monson. He is Elder Holland's cousin and I have met several of the Brethren when they came to visit him both on the mission and here at home. He invited me to sit with him and a seventy a couple of years ago at General Conference. We spent the time prior to the session speaking with Elder Scott.
This shows that he is well-connected, and on a first-name basis with some of the FP, but beyond that, I don't see what this proves, I'm afraid.
As I said before, on my mission the President called me in from my first area to serve as the financial secretary. He asked me if I knew why he had called me into the offices so quickly. I said I assumed he considered the offices a training ground for mission leaders. He told me it was exactly that, but that he also wanted to train some of us for future positions in chruch leadership after the mission. I was told I needed to learn church finances because I would have big responsibilities in that area in the future. For almost a year I was in their working on mission finances but also being trained by him on how things worked in the church.
Again, what does this mean? What do you mean by the phrase "how things work[...] in the Church"?
One day, because of an emergency ATM failsafe, a number of missionaries were able to (and did) withdraw almost ten times their normal allotment. In trying to deal with the nightmare of filtering the money back through a system in South America with no possible way to deposit the money in our American account, I was told about the serous nature of messing with church funds, which now graces Vegas' signature line.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Church really, really hates anyone who tampers with the money. I totally believe you on this. (In fact, this is one of the few things that merits excommunication, according to the CHI).
My mission president explained how certain people have access to certain funds and he told me what they are and are not allowed to do with that access.
Which is what? Please elaborate.
The irony was on occasion he would try to get reimbursed for something that he wasn't allowed to. The missionaries did it more often, though. During that year he shared with me the route that tithing travels in coming to Salt Lake, what it does when it gets here, and where it goes when it leaves.
Please explain. I would be very interested in learning about this system.
He shared with me the system within which General Authorities operate, as well as the Emeritus Authorities. After that assignment I was called to serve as Branch President and assigned the task of excommunicating a few members of the branch. I've been in leadership ever since and am well aware of how the church does and does not operate.
I would love to know. I do not have this kind of "insider" knowledge that you appear to have. All I am able to rely upon is the sort of information I've posted above. Perhaps you can share some more that will help quell my doubts about the totally ethical way in which Church funds are handled?
I'm sorry, but my mission president didn't give me any receipts or photocopies of bank statements. Why do you require that for my evidence but "strong speculation" is all you need to feel secure with the opinion of the critics?