What would it take for you to leave Mormonism?

[_asbestosman]

Could you read of bombing plots?

Mendaciously malicious mad murderer Mark makes a mockery of Mormonism?

Mayhap Maxwell made me mention the miscreant's maladity.

[_Sethbag]

Objection 2. Further, "One," as the principle of number, cannot be predicated of God, since quantity is not predicated of God; likewise, neither can "one" which is convertible with "being" be predicated of God, because it imports privation, and every privation is an imperfection, which cannot apply to God. Therefore God is not one.

This bit of logic from Thomas Aquinas can only make sense to people who agree with its underlying postulates, none of which are obviously true outside of his particular brand of belief.
1. God exists. Not acceptable as a postulate, since considerable doubt exists, and his existence has not been demonstrated.
2. Quantity is not predicated of God. It assumes, without proof, a characteristic of God that you either believe, or you believe something else, and there's no particular logical requirement for this characteristic to be true. It is an unreliable premise.
3. "One", or "being", imports privation. Could he please be a bit more specific?
4. An imperfection cannot apply to God. Assumes a perfect God, which, since God's very existence itself is not proven, is likewise not proven. This assumes a particular view of God which some will accept, and some won't, because they believe something else about God. Not acceptable as a postulate in a general proof.

His conclusion, "therefore God is not one" rests upon assertions that are not generally accepted to be true. His "proof", therefore, only has any meaning to people who already share his beliefs.

[_asbestosman]

His conclusion, "therefore God is not one" rests upon assertions that are not generally accepted to be true. His "proof", therefore, only has any meaning to people who already share his beliefs.

You made some good points, but keep in mind that the audience that our Aquinas had in mind was Mormons like me--people who do in fact believe in the existance and perfection of God.

[_Jason Bourne]

The logic would be along the lines of showing that fundamental doctrine A contradicts fundamental doctrine B.

Bzzzzt!

Wrong, try again. I believe you need to bone up on Contextualism.

So, open your college Philosophy textbook and read instead of trying to inject your god delusion into a logical conversation.

Nice to see that you are an equal opportunity anti religion person.

[_Mercury]

Bzzzzt!

Wrong, try again. I believe you need to bone up on Contextualism.

So, open your college Philosophy textbook and read instead of trying to inject your god delusion into a logical conversation.

Nice to see that you are an equal opportunity anti religion person.

Its a badge of honor I wear proudly

[_asbestosman]

Nice to see that you are an equal opportunity anti religion person.

Its a badge of honor I wear proudly

I always thought it was more of a dead badge of incorrigability--not to be confused with a red badge of courage.

[_Jason Bourne]

Bzzzzt!

Wrong, try again. I believe you need to bone up on Contextualism.

So, open your college Philosophy textbook and read instead of trying to inject your god delusion into a logical conversation.

Nice to see that you are an equal opportunity anti religion person.

Its a badge of honor I wear proudly

actually I respect that. Least you are not a damned hypocrite like me.

[_maklelan]

Who introduced you to Mormonism?

No one introduced me to it, really. I had a friend who occasionally talked about it, but she lived in another state. I was always out on a drug binge when she was around and she didn't bother trying to teach me anything abouyt it. After a brush with death when I ODed I decided I needed to find out what I was doing with my life. I started to read all of the sacred literature I could find. I read the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, The Lao-tzu, the Bible and whatever else I could find. I thought the Book of Mormon would be a fun way to remind myself of my friend, but I thought the story was hard to follow and the names were stupid. When I wasn't reading it I wanted to be reading it, though, and the lessons of the story started to jump out at me and my life started changing. I would rush home early from work so I could read it. I got to a part about baptism and decided I needed to take the next step if I was going to continue having this force for good in my life. I found out from a friend who I had to talk to and I went to church one Sunday in jeans and a t-shirt to look for the missionaries. I found them and walked up to them and said, "Hi, I'm Dan. What do I have to do to get baptized?" They told me to pray about the Book of Mormon. Up to this point I hadn't prayed about it, but I figured it was important enough to try. I had a few very spiritual experiences verify for me that I was doing the right thing, so I got baptized. Best decision I've ever made.

[_maklelan]

Maklelan, sure you get answers from the Church that you cannot get from science alone. The $64million question is, of course, whether those answers are worth the paper they're written on? You may have answers, and that may satisfy you, not really caring whether the answers are really true or not. Just remember, you're one person out of another 6.5 billion people, who are finding "answers" from their religions, and you'd have to agree that most of them aren't true. The Scientologists have a lot of answers too, that you definitely won't get from science, despite the name. But are those answers true? Is the reality they describe real?

I'd like to share with you something. The reality described by the LDS Church isn't real. It's an invention of the mind, hatched by few minds in the earlier 1800s and evolved over time by millions of well-intended minds in the 170 years since then, until it makes a lot of sense to you, and sounds really great. But it's still just an invention of the human mind, and not reality. Just like the elaborate descriptions of reality evolved by the JWs, the Buddhists, the Muslims, the Catholics, the Born-Again Christians, the 7th Day Adventists, and all the others.

When I read the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph smith I see the most comprehensive and most accurate explanations of the intricacies of Mormon doctrine. The excuse is always made that the church has had 170 years to perfect the story, but I disagree. The story straight from the horse's mouth is the exact same story I hear every week in church and in the literature and scholarship I read. I find truth in every inch of the gospel, and I disagree with your opinion about the quality of the answers I find.

[_maklelan]

I'll second what Seth wrote.

Mak - if the church brings you joy - great. If it brings you spiritual witnesses - great. But you do realize that this says absolutely nothing about the truth of the church. Like Seth said, millions of people experience these sorts of things in various religions. Do you really think they provide even a shred of evidence for any sort of truth regarding religion? Sure, it may be 'true' for that individual, but saying it's somehow universally true is just plain wrong.

Like I said - if it makes you happy - good for you - just so long as you know that it means absolutely nothing in terms of real/universal truth.

So you believe in absolute truth?