No-Cross Protocol

Post by **_Coggins7** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:16 am

Bye Blixa...enjoy your time in low orbit.

Post by **_Mephitus** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:05 am

Ignore cog, he likes to think he has full experience in what everyone goes through in Mormon corp. I also was taught from a young age to show disdain for the cross. Or even what could be described as fear towards its use. It was a sumbol of death and an almost worship of the death of Jesus.

When you get right down to it, it is a symbol of a tool of death, but most people just use it as a representation of the mythos of Jesus. I say let peopel use whatever symbology they want to.

Post by **_Blixa** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:09 pm

Ha! I'm not disturbed by that juvenile "burn," sono hito, but I am rather taken aback by the line of argument---if your experience varied than you're lying or knowingly trying to get away with something ("pulling wool").

I think one of the most interesting characteristics of Mormonism is its history of variance, at center, at periphery, throughout its scripture and history. And there are several ways to approach/explain that: some which use it criticize and dismiss the church, others which use it to justify and legitimate the church.

And then there's the strategy of just plain denying that anything at anytime has been confusing or unexplained or even altered. That's the tack I find intellectually unsupportable, although I've certainly encountered it plenty o' times in my life.

And I actually found the discussion of when the cross was adopted rather interesting, though it still begs the question of why no crosses for Mormons. Or am I wrong? In that case Mr. Coggins should be rockin' a Jesus rope, or at least have no problem with the possibility...

Post by **_Mephitus** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:18 am

The history of christian symbolism has never really interested me. Though it would be interesting if someone could post what they know about the historical of use of the cross within Mormonism. Where the protocol began or started its roots. I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar to the WoW efforts.

Post by **_Blixa** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:38 pm

Well I have to say the history of christain symbolism doesn't interest me all that much either in the greater scheme of things.

Tracing the use/non use of the cross and other symbols within Mormonism would be an interesting study, though. There may be several or more symbols not in current usage that were orignally felt to be central or important. The vagaries of the honey bee/beehive could be a fascinating book in itself (I've always wondered about the exclusion of the "stinging out of the hive" phrase from later versions of the Articles of Faith, for example).

Post by **_Mephitus** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:36 am

The beehive is an easy one. It stems from Joseph Smith's joining the freemasons. Its one of their symbols of industrialness/hard work.

Post by **_Blixa** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:43 pm

Oh, I know that. What I meant was it would be interesting to gather many pictorial and textual instances and follow any developments and changes in its usage. It may be that there is nothing much more than the masonic borrowing, or its history may reveal some reversals and additions that are not commonly known. I'm thinking of the phrasing found in some versions of the 13th article of faith, for example:

"But an idle or lazy person cannot be a Christian, neither have salvation. He is a drone, and destined to be stung to death and tumbled out of the hive."

I read this first in Burton's, City of the Saints and later in Gunnison's, [i]The Mormons,or Latter-day Saints, in the Valley of the Great Salt Lake. I've read a few bits on the development of the articles of faith, but none which address this specific form of the beehive trope.

Anyway, it was just a stray thought---something which would be interesting to read, but something I don't have the time or drive to research and write myself...[/i]

Post by **_Mercury** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:34 pm

richardMdBorn wrote:
moksha wrote:If we did do a Stations of the Cross, I wonder if the first scene would be set in a primeval Independence County, Missouri?
This reminds me of a joke. God appears to the Pope. He tells him that he's got good news and bad news. The Pope asks what the good news is. "Jesus is coming back tomorrow." The Pope asks what the bad news is. "He's coming back to Missouri."

I thought of that joke the other day. The unfunny thing about it is that Mormons ACTUALLY believe it.

It stands in Mormon culture as a sign of marginalization and is a send up to Mormons on how important they think they are. It also shows the animosity the church has for Catholicism.

Post by **_Mercury** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:36 pm

Sono_hito wrote:The history of christian symbolism has never really interested me. Though it would be interesting if someone could post what they know about the historical of use of the cross within Mormonism. Where the protocol began or started its roots. I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar to the WoW efforts.

My WoW efforts have been exciting. I have a 21 night elf ranger, 34 human mage, 12 gnome rogue and a 32 Taurin Druid

Post by **_Mercury** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:38 pm

Mike Reed wrote:
Coggins7 wrote:
You got the willies from a cross hanging on a wall? You believed it was an instrument of Satan? Let's see, you couldn't have gotten that idea from anything taught in the Church, so...from whence was it derived?

The Catholic Church was identified as the church of the devil, great abominable, and mother harlots, by more than a few LDS authorities. And MANY more identified the symbol of the cross as a "Catholic" symbol. It followed from these premises quite naturally that the symbol of the cross therefore was a symbol of the devil. And in addition to this, it became no stretch for Bruce R. McConkie to identify the sign of the cross as the Mark of the Beast.

He knows that, and deep down im sure coggy realizes that he throws out red herrings like a chinese fish market.