Mike Reed wrote:Thanks for sharing these experiences, Miss Taken.
Miss Taken: Just out of interest does anyone know if there were tau symbols used on possible christian ossuaries found on the mount of olives? Also, I was in Herculaneum last year and am pretty sure that there was a house with a cross on the wall (Herculaneum was covered in the 1st Century so if it was a christian cross then that would put cross usage firmly in the first century) though it might have been a Greek symbol rather christian? Most churches over here are laid out in the shape of a cross (particularly the medieval ones). and point east of course.
I addressed the Herculaneum cross in my large post of the first page of this thread (footnote 2):
2 Ibid. Those who reject today’s general agreement among scholars may cite the 1938 excavation discovery of a cross engraved on a wall from an unearthed house in Herculaneum, or the so-called Paletine cross drawing, found in 1856, that depicts a donkey being crucified, with graffiti that reads “Alexamenos, worship god.” But though these “evidences” may both date after the rise of Christianity and prior to the reign of Constantine, there is much to dispute about them.
Since the discovery of the cross at Herculaneum, “Further consideration,” says Everett Ferguson, “has given a more utilitarian purpose: the imprint in the plaster was left by wooden brackets for a wall cabinet or perhaps a shelf or mantle with a supporting upright piece.”(Backgrounds of Early Christianity [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans Publishing Co., 2003], 590.) Graydon Snyder agrees, “[T]his so-called cross could have been anything attached to the wall by two cross pieces.” (Snyder, 27.) But even if the new consideration is wrong, and that the engraving indeed marked where a Latin-style-cross was once displayed, there is no reason to believe that the cross was hung by a Christian, and not a Pagan. As already explained, the cross has been used throughout antiquity by nearly every known culture. Furthermore, outside this extremely questionable example, the underwhelming evidence that the Christians displayed the image of the cross during this period makes the idea “simply appear to us as a surd in the development of early Christian art: it came three hundred years too soon.” (Ibid.) The Paletine cross should also not count as “evidence” to debunk the conclusion that we cannot find the image of the cross (in reference to the passion) being used prior to the reign of Constantine. One problem is that “no fixed date can be given for this drawing.” (Snyder, 28.) Secondly, since the image is assumed to be drawn by an opponent of the faith, “it hardly proves that the cross was an early Christian symbol.” (Ibid.) Again, the opponent would have drawn it, not a Christian. Thirdly, though one today may be quick to assume that this derogatory cartoon mocked the Christian kerygma, there is a possibility that actually paganism is being mocked. Not only did pagans use the image cross, but also some even depicted an image of deity hanging on it. Minucius Felix, of the third century, denied, “Crosses, moreover, we [Christians] neither worship nor wish for,” and then criticized pagans, saying, “You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods…. Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it.” (The Octavius of the Octavius of, ch 29.) Barbara G. Walker comments on Minucius Felix’s remarks, saying, “From very ancient times, an effigy of a man hanging on a cross was set up in fields to protect the crops. The modern scarecrow is a survival of this sacrificial magic, representing the sacred king whose blood was supposed to fertilize the earth.” (The Woman’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets [San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1983], 188.) An example of such an image is the controversial second to third century amulet of Orpheus-Bakkikos Crucified. (Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? [Three Rivers Press, 2001], 52.)
Regarding the Ossuaries on Mt. Olives… a couple years ago I participated in a discussion about them on the CARM message boards, and wrote the following:
XXXXX: here are a couple of examples:
French Archaeologist Charles Clermant-Ganneau, discovered of a burial chamber on the Mount of Olives in 1874. Inside were 30+ ossuaries some of which had crosses on them. Also, the name "Jesus" occurred three times, twice in graphic association with a cross. These ossuaries are dated to about 135 AD or earlier (Ancient Times, Vol. 3, No. 1, July 1958, p. 3.)
Me: The inscriptions you speak of, Iesous aloth and Iesous iou are probably personal names, "Jesus Son of Aloth" and "Jesus, son of Judas." The name Jesus, as you should know, was a very common. And the X and + shaped crosses are probably the Hebrew letter taw. This letter was the sign of Yahweh, mentioned in Ezekiel 9:4. The taw on the ossuaries was (in all likelihood) either used as an expression of (Jewish) faith, or was used as a sign to ward off demons. There is no evidence that the symbol was used in reference to the passion event. Nor is there reason to believe that the name Jesus refers to Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary and brother of Jesus.
XXXXX: Unlikely. The ossuaries were ALL in a Jewish "cemetary" and only a few of them were marked with these crosses. The names were written in GREEK not Hebrew.
Me: The taw had become a symbol of protection for Jews (even hellenized Jews). Your assertion that the rare appearance of the symbol, indicates that they were not Jewish, is purely speculative. Furthermore, your hopeful but naïve speculation is contradicted by Everett Ferguson's report that "The mark occurs in Jewish funerary settings (including a Jewish catacomb in Rome) with some frequency." (Backgrounds of Early Christianity, 591)
http://www.christiandiscussionforums.or ... php?t=4511