Why Do Mormons Have a Tendancy to be Judgmental?

[_Blixa]

It's been an interesting thread, Liz. I think there are a couple of different but related issues that are important: 1) judgmentalism and Mormonism, 2) judgmentalism in individuals and 3) internet-encouraged judgmentalism.

Number three is a hazard anyone who spends time writing/posting anywhere on the internet is familiar with. "Flaming" as an internet-specific phenomena is even a topic of study in several disciplines. Anonymity breeds/allows it, quite obviously. When I originally began posting online (circa '94, '95) I always used my real name as my screen name (or a variation of it, if that name had already been taken).

I continued to do so, too, mostly because I enjoyed "being myself" and because I disliked much of bad fall out of anonymity (flaming, etc.). But, one bad experience with a poster on a (non-lds connected) bulletin board made me re-think being free with RL names and information.

So, the next time I "joined" an online community---it turned out to be RfM----I used a nickname. And I use one here, too. I'd much rather use my real name, all things considered, but frankly the kind of ad hominem attacks that are generated from the handful of LDS websites I frequent are, well, icky enough to make me think twice about that. I've never indulged in it and I've even posted criticism of it, and yet I've been accused of it by apologists! So thank you for the warning against using my real name, guys! I may joke around a bit, but I hope always respond with the same or better amount of respect any other poster gives me.

Number two is a short coming everyone is guilty of at some time and I think everyone benefits from being called on it.

Number one is the most interesting to me because I think that there are institutional structures in Mormonism that are both designed to produce it as well as informally encourage it. This is what I hoped my earlier posts would address. I differ from Wade, I think, in that he would see number one as a by product of number two, where I see number one as a signficantly distinct phenomenon. I think this difference comes not so much from our differing stances on religion and Mormonism, but from different philosophical/epistemological frameworks.

[_wenglund]

It's been an interesting thread, Liz. I think there are a couple of different but related issues that are important: 1) judgmentalism and Mormonism, 2) judgmentalism in individuals and 3) internet-encouraged judgmentalism....

....Number one is the most interesting to me because I think that there are institutional structures in Mormonism that are both designed to produce it as well as informally encourage it. This is what I hoped my earlier posts would address. I differ from Wade, I think, in that he would see number one as a by product of number two, where I see number one as a signficantly distinct phenomenon. I think this difference comes not so much from our differing stances on religion and Mormonism, but from different philosophical/epistemological frameworks.

I am open to exploring this question a little deeper in hopes of seeing whether my perceptions are correct or not.

I suspect, however, that some may be confusing the Church (or the Church culture) as a causation of judgmentalism, with the Church as a catalyst for judgementalism.

To understand the difference between causation and catalyst, lets dissect a single instance of judgementalism. For example, after graduatng from high school in Washington state, some LDS friends and I decided to take a weekend trip around the Olympic Pennisula. While in one of the cities along our journey, one of my friends suggested that we stop at a store and buy a cigar and give it a try. We did so. My friends passed the cigar around and took a puff, and when it came to me, I said "no thanks", and passed it on the next friend. My declining to take a puff then engender no small ribbing about me supposedly being a goody-two-shoes and self-righteous. This confused me because I didn't have a problem with them taking a puff (I certanly didn't view them in any lesser way, and simply marked the behavior up to rather innocent testing of Church boundries). This confused me even more when throughout the remaineder of the trip and from then on I noticed a more distant and coldness in their behavior towards me. In fact, I felt a bit alienated and wrongfully judged.

Now, in dissecting this experience, the Church's stance on smoking certainly figured prominently, but the question is, was it a causation or a catylist. I believe it was the latter for two important reasons: 1) the judgementalism expressed towards me was counter to what the Church's stance was on smoking, whereas were it a causation, one would figure the opposite to have occured; and 2) not all of the 4 Church members were inclined to be judgemental in that instance, whereas were it a causation, one would expect the judgementalism to be universal.

To further bear this point out, ask yourselves the following questions:

a) Has there been a developmental period in your life when you were far more prone to be judgemental? (For me, junior high was particularly ruthless in that way)

b) Has there been brief moments when you were more vulnerable to judgementalism? (For me, it is when I am depressed and feeling low about myself)?

c) Were these periods and moments of increased judgementalism predominately Church related? (For me, the judgementalism had more to do with secular issues, like intellegence and dress and groom and politics and socio-economic standing, and abnormal secular behaviors, etc., than religion.)

d) Is there a range of judgementalism within the Church (both in terms of what is or isn't being judged as well as the extent to which the members express judgementalism)? I have found that not all members are judgemental about the same things, and not all members are as judgemental as others. How could that be if the Church is the causation rather than the catalyst?

e) Is there a quantitative and qualitative difference between judgementalism within the Church as compared to without (take for example what one may find on RFM as contrasted with MAD, or what one may find on moveon.org and LDS.org)? Through my extensive experience in both realms, on balance I haven't noticed much of a quantitative or qualitative difference, though the subjectmatter of the judgementalism may differ. If my perceptions are correct, then could this be so were the Church the causation rather than the catalyst?

How I see it is, whereever there are a set of rules and expectation (whether secular or religious), and people with varying degrees of compliance, there will be judgementalism. It is not so much the rules that cause the judgementalism, though they do act as a catylist for judgementalism.

What then is the causation of judgementalism? Well...I have my own hypothesis. But, I would like to hear what other might think (particularly in light of the questions I asked above). By adequately explaining the differences and similarities deliniated above, I think you will find or uncover the causation. (Hint: I believe the causation is personal in nature, and has to do with human nature, socialization, and development.)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Yoda]

I suspect, however, that some may be confusing the Church (or the Church culture) as a causation of judgmentalism, with the Church as a catalyst for judgementalism.

I agree that the Church culture is the catalyst rather than the cause of this behavior. Judgmentalism is a very human trait. As many have pointed out here, we all do it to some degree, in our daily lives. Making judgments is, many times, part of the daily decision-making process.

What I find objectionable is negative judgmentalism. To me, this type of behavior, where we are judging our fellow Church members harshly based on gossip, or on many times, a false premise, is in direct contradiction to the core teachings of the gospel.

And, the fact that current Mormon culture is a catalyst for this type of behavior rather than the cause leads me to believe that there are things we can do to change it.

[_Runtu]

Wade, I don't believe it "causes" judgmentalism, but the church does encourage it and in many ways direct the form such judgmentalism takes. I think you're right that we are more vulnerable to this kind of unhealthy attitude at certain points in our lives. The issue for me regarding the church is that it may inhibit the self-awareness one would need to recognize unhealthy judging.

[_wenglund]

I suspect, however, that some may be confusing the Church (or the Church culture) as a causation of judgmentalism, with the Church as a catalyst for judgementalism.

I agree that the Church culture is the catalyst rather than the cause of this behavior. Judgmentalism is a very human trait. As many have pointed out here, we all do it to some degree, in our daily lives. Making judgments is, many times, part of the daily decision-making process.

What I find objectionable is negative judgmentalism. To me, this type of behavior, where we are judging our fellow Church members harshly based on gossip, or on many times, a false premise, is in direct contradiction to the core teachings of the gospel.

And, the fact that current Mormon culture is a catalyst for this type of behavior rather than the cause leads me to believe that there are things we can do to change it.

I agree. Surprised? ;-)

The question, then, is what can we do about it?

I think we agree that at the very least we can affect the desired change within ourselves, and that is the best place to start?

But, how then do we go about affecting positive change in others?

And, to what extent is it realistic for us (a few relatively no-name participants posting on an obscure message board) to believe we can affect a positive change in others--i.e. with our families, our friends, our ward members, our stakes and missions, or even with the Church as a whole?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Yoda]

And, to what extent is it realistic for us (a few relatively no-name participants posting on an obscure message board) to believe we can affect a positive change in others--I.e. with our families, our friends, our ward members, our stakes and missions, or even with the Church as a whole?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I think that, like you said, recognizing that this is a problem is a first step. Being an example in the way we handle callings, etc. from this new perspective can make significant changes in subtle ways.

[_Mister Scratch]

And, to what extent is it realistic for us (a few relatively no-name participants posting on an obscure message board) to believe we can affect a positive change in others--I.e. with our families, our friends, our ward members, our stakes and missions, or even with the Church as a whole?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I think that, like you said, recognizing that this is a problem is a first step. Being an example in the way we handle callings, etc. from this new perspective can make significant changes in subtle ways.

Great questions, Wade. A key to addressing the problem, in my opinion, is "spreading the word." We need to be sharply critical of talks given by the Brethren that encourage judgmental behavior and attitudes. We need to alert our fellow Saints to aspects of the Church that can lead to being judgmental. In short: we can raise awareness.

[_wenglund]

Wade, I don't believe it "causes" judgmentalism, but the church does encourage it and in many ways direct the form such judgmentalism takes. I think you're right that we are more vulnerable to this kind of unhealthy attitude at certain points in our lives. The issue for me regarding the church is that it may inhibit the self-awareness one would need to recognize unhealthy judging.

Could you provide a specific example of how the Church may encourage judgementalism and inhibit self-awareness of unhealthy judging?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

Wade, I don't believe it "causes" judgmentalism, but the church does encourage it and in many ways direct the form such judgmentalism takes. I think you're right that we are more vulnerable to this kind of unhealthy attitude at certain points in our lives. The issue for me regarding the church is that it may inhibit the self-awareness one would need to recognize unhealthy judging.

Could you provide a specific example of how the Church may encourage judgementalism and inhibit self-awareness of unhealthy judging?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Sure.

President Hinckley said that women should not wear more than one pair of earrings. Elder Bednar gave a talk praising a young man who broke off his engagement because his fiancee had two sets of earrings. Thus the idea is reinforced that someone with two sets of earrings is less-valiant in following the prophet's counsel. And someone making that judgment would likely not think twice about it because all he or she is doing is following the prophet's counsel.

[_moksha]

Wade, I don't believe it "causes" judgmentalism, but the church does encourage it and in many ways direct the form such judgmentalism takes. I think you're right that we are more vulnerable to this kind of unhealthy attitude at certain points in our lives. The issue for me regarding the church is that it may inhibit the self-awareness one would need to recognize unhealthy judging.

Additionally, anytime an overzealousness is rewarded it can exacerbate not only being judgmental but other undesirable peculiarities as well.