PBS Mormons Part 2 Thread

[_Who Knows]

My overall brief one sentence thought on the program.

It showed what the LDS church really is: A man made religion that satisfies certain individuals' spiritual needs, and does some good things in the process.

[_The Dude]

Id like to be stoned for two years

Aw Vegas, you robbed me. ;)

[_The Dude]

One of the talking heads said they had the efficienc of the Wermacht. Very fitting but I don't think he knows about Goodwyns Law...Hahaha

Godwins law!

I think the talking head was Terryl "The Hobbit" Givens.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Still not much emphasis on Jesus. As I was watching all the things modern Mormons believe - families, geneolgy, temples, excommunicating intellectuals, obeying the prophets, etc. I realized why Christians have such a hard time accepting them. Not that I'm a fan of Christianity. On the segment about geneology and baptism for the dead, the narrator said something about how Mormons baptise people who didn't have the opportunity to join the Mormon church while they were alive. This made me wonder if Jesus has been proxy baptised.

[_The Nehor]

Id like to be stoned for two years

Hahahah

Should've learned. When I said while teaching Gospel Doctrine that on my Mission, "For a whole month I couldn't walk out of my house without being stoned by the end of the day."

A lot of deer-in-headlights looks.

To clarify I do mean the chucking of rocks.

[_Roger Morrison]

A well done 4 hours. reminded me of a homily quoted years ago by a Brit poetic Branch member: "...so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us, it little behooves the most of us to talk about the rest of us."

Mormonism's good-stuff speaks for itself. As does its negatives. I think Dallin Oakes articulated THE latter, "...it's WRONG to cricize church leaders, even if they're wrong..." Or words to that affect. Said with a slight grin that added to the absurdity of LDS absolutism...

I think the programs served a useful purpose, for the Public, Mormons and Ex-mos as well...

Certainly its evolution is undeniable. Evolution, as an ongoing process bodes well for Later-Day-Saints... Warm regards, Roger

[_beastie]

If they were happy to believe that would they want to go out for 2 years and be stoned, ridiculed, ignored, and attacked.

Yes, I know LDS, as do EVs, try to "save" us from hell or familial separation. But my point is that they are happy to believe in a God that would mandate such a thing in the first place. To me, there is something disturbing about being willing and even happy to believe in that sort of God.

I sometimes get the sense that people who believe in the sort of God who will punish nonbelievers in some significant way, say with eternal torment, being divided from your loved ones, never getting to see your "Heavenly Parents" again, are willing and happy to believe in that sort of God because, on some level, they feel as if nonbelievers find them stupid and silly. So, in a way, it comforts them to know that, in the end, they'll be able to say "oh YEAH??? HA!!! Now you KNOW, don't you??? Sucks to be YOU now!!" I know that sounds extreme, but I have sensed this from EVs who dwell on the aspect of eternal torment for those who reject their beliefs, and I sense it from LDS when they talk about that "grand and spacious" building with all the mockers.

I really believe that the type of God people are able to believe in tells us more about the people than any godbeing.

Maybe a God exists, I don't know. But if a God exists like the LDS and EVs imagine, in my opinion, it is an amoral God who plays games with human beings for his own entertainment.

[_truth dancer]

The program discussed, at length, the importance, to Mormons, of knowing they will be a "forever family". At the same time I'm listening to Teryl Givens or the others go on about how wonderful that is, I can't help thinking about how content they are to realize that the "others" - you know, the bad guys like us - will be forcibly separated from OUR families, because we didn't believe the right thing, or act in just the right way. On some level they realize that the vast majority of human beings, even if they believe the "wrong" thing or sometimes act the "wrong" way, still love our families and would choose to retain familial bonds in whatever next life there may be. But it's ok that those bonds are severed - as long as "mine" aren't, because I believe the right thing, and act the right way.

This is a perfect example of why the church didn't work for me.

As a child, the whole, "families can be together forever" wasn't that comforting. My mother was not a member at the time, my father agnostic so primary for me was more about... being alone in heaven with NO family for eternity!

I got married in the temple with not one family member of friend (other than my husband). The idea of eternal family just had a REALLY horrific ring to it when I contemplated the implications of the teaching. I just didn't see it as something holy.

All I could say it that any God who would create a plan where loved ones and family would be separated if they didn't believe the "right" thing is a horrific, cruel, disgusting God. I still feel this way.

~dancer~

Oh yeah... what was up with the rocking, clapping, and "get-on-you-feet" and sing in church? I mean you have got to be kidding? If that happened in church ya'll know there would be serious intervention from the brethren! ;-)

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I thought Part 2 was even-handed and well done, as was Part 1. Some particular observations:

1. Betty Stephenson was a hoot (when speaking of her initial disdain for geneology, she said "I didn't even like my own family!"). If anyone made the Church look good throughout the 4-hour show, it was her.

2. Marlin Jenson did an admirable job, but seemed uncomfortable talking of some issues (like homosexuals).

3. A frail BKP seemed embarrassed by his "3 dangers" talk.

4. Dallin Oaks was downright creepy with his "we cannot criticize Church leaders, even if the criticism is true" mantra -- can anyone say "infallibility"?

5. Some very heartwrenching stories (like Dalrymple losing his wife in childbirth, the terminally ill girl, etc.).

6. The street mishies looked as if they were nearly assaulting people when trying to talk to them (this did not make LDS mishies look good, in my opinion), but some of the reactions were hilarious.

7. The lady pantomiming the temple death oaths was pretty shocking.

8. Margaret Toscano was very effective, making her disciplinary proceeding appear like the Spanish Inquisition.

Overall, the 4 hours were a good show, in my opinion. Nothing earthshattering, but I bet it'll get some TBM's thinking (particularly about certain history rarely, if ever, heard about in Church) and some non-members thinking more than ever that the LDS are weird.

[_Who Knows]

3. A frail BKP seemed embarrassed by his "3 dangers" talk.

What I saw was how difficult it is for these guys to admit they may have made a mistake. Quite sad.

5. Some very heartwrenching stories (like Dalrymple losing his wife in childbirth, the terminally ill girl, etc.).

Man, the story about the wife dieing in childbirth killed me. It's crap like that that really bugs me about religion. People ignore common sense because they think they've had some type of religious experience telling them to go against it. How people can still rely on 'spiritual promptings' over common sense after experiencing something like that, i'll never understand.

6. The street mishies looked as if they were nearly assaulting people when trying to talk to them (this did not make LDS mishies look good, in my opinion), but some of the reactions were hilarious.

That was really the only part of the entire show where i felt embarrassed. That could have been me out there.

7. The lady pantomiming the temple death oaths was pretty shocking.

Yeah, that was good to get that in there. But I'm miffed that they didn't go into more detail surrounding the origins of the temple - the masonic connections, the desire to bind people to secrecy regarding plural marriage, etc.