ajax18 wrote:The Nehor wrote:Speaking only for myself as a practicing LDS I go by what the Spirit says. If you're a strong critic you'd say I listen to my invisible friend so not sure if that would appear better or worse to you than following Church Leaders. I've listened to High Councilors talks and blown them off as irrelevant, usually because the person is trying to morph their personal path to salvation into a general rule.
I try to detect spirit of Prophecy when deciding whether to follow commands from leaders. Some of what they say is good advice but not inspired, some is eternal truth, some is neutral, and some I hear alarms going off.
While Elder Oaks may have said it stronger than I would I avoid criticizing Church Leaders. My reasoning is different though. I'm terrified God will ask me to prove that I can do better. He can be like that sometimes.
I think more reasonable LDS would ascribe to the philosophy you just outlined. The problem I have with the whole thing is that it is done very quietly. It seems I've had to dig pretty deep to get other LDS to admit that ultimately we are responsible for discerning right and wrong by the spirit. Usually the reflex answer is, "The prophet will never lead us astray, and basically that right and wrong is determined by who said it and what office they hold rather than what they actually said." To me this is where it first starts to get into an element of brainwashing and control in the LDS faith. As a member, I don't see this attitude as much, but in the mission field it was a very common tactic used by Church leaders.
Most LDS admit the Mission Field is just a different animal.
When in interview with my Mission President a month before I went home I had the following conversation:
MP: So, if you could do it all again and come out on a Mission would you?
Me: (after thinking for a minute) I'm not sure.
MP: Me either, I could do it once in ignorance but going our again knowing what it will be like, don't know if I could do it.
Another thing he continually cautioned us about was not to think that Mission Life was reality, it is an exception, a brief time away from normality.
It could be just where I live but here in Texas we're told regularly and often that it's our job to discern right and wrong. A few months ago we had a Sacrament Meeting devoted to this.
One of my favorite quotes from Brigham Young:
"...Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and pinning their faith upon another's sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to in every trifle, like a child. They cannot control themselves in the least, but James, Peter, or somebody else must control them. They never can become Gods, nor be crowned as rulers with glory, immortality, and eternal lives. They never can hold sceptres of glory, majesty, and power in the celestial kingdom. Who will? Those who are valiant and inspired with the true independence of heaven, who will go forth boldly in the service of their God, leaving others to do as they please, determined to do right, though all mankind besides should take the opposite course. Will this apply to any of you? Your own hearts can answer."
Joseph F. Smith:
"And none are required to tamely and blindly submit to a man because he has a portion of the priesthood. We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark, that they would do anything they were told to do by those who presided over them, if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God... would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without asking any questions. When Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their minds to do wrong themselves."
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo