Runtu wrote:I don't know that I'd say Juliann contributed to an apostasy, but I missed that exchange. Last I had seen, Maggie Mormon was getting it from all sides. It sounded like they thought she was a sockpuppet/troll to me, but I could be wrong. I hope MM gets through what will no doubt be a difficult period. I wouldn't want to go through that again.
Who Knows wrote:Oh, and how the hell do you go from Mormonism to EVism?
That's like leaving jonestown to join koresh. Well, ok, maybe not that bad. But you get my point.
Atheists' straw man is the evangelical movement. All too often, atheists (myself included) are quick to associate all evangelicals with vulgar, Armageddonist scumbags like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. And while it is true that Falwell and Robertson are prominent evangelical leaders, and that their views are unfortunately representative of many evangelical Christians' (particularly the stupidest ones), evangelicals are simply too large and complex a group to fit into easy global characterizations.
The fact of the matter is that evangelicals seem to be making inroads all over the place -- including amongst young, highly-educated urban elites. Old time religion is getting increasingly sophisticated -- thereby requiring an increasingly nuanced critique from freethinkers.
Seven wrote:I disagree. The majority of newbies that are LDS going to FAIR/MAD for help, information etc. are desperate to save their testimony or they wouldn't be there. It is NORMAL they will be critical of the church if they have found their way to MAD. Something or someone has given them reason to doubt and they have most likely read some very negative history on the church before finding MAD. I have never personally spoken in person or online with someone who as you said "WANTED OUT, but was afraid to leave." Most people don't DESIRE to leave but are only trying to reconcile the true history with their testimony based on the sanitized version.
You see it a hundred times on MAD. A newbie comes in and is pounced on by rabid aplogists and TBMs who declare it must be a troll. They won't show any compassion or understanding for how hard and painful it is to have that world you once knew destroyed. Oh, how I used to wish I could unknow what I knew and go back to my Chapel Mormon days. Ignorance was truly bliss. If that person turned out to be a troll, so what? What harm did it cause by being nice and compassionate to them? Most TBMs on that board are only interested in fighting with exMos to strengthen their own beliefs, and not in helping the newbie doubter who has just had their world come crashing down.
Until apologists and TBMs learn to be understanding of this painful stage, they will never help anybody on that discussion board and only drive them to those who will. (exMos) I really appreciate the guy running the "Mormon Stories" website because he is a TBM who is really trying to show compassion and love for those struggling with the new information.
Mister Scratch wrote: Juliann seems to be one of those peculiar species of LDS women who harbors a special scorn for other women.
moksha wrote:Perhaps she knows that in the end there can be only one. At least that is what they said on the Highlander. Hmmm, there is no mention of a Juliann in ancient Summerian records, is there?
Bond...James Bond wrote: Are you suggesting Juliann is the real life sword wielding Kurgan?
moksha wrote:No, I would never make that insinuation. I am certain she is much prettier and less sword wielding.
http://www.austinpowers.com/objects/desktops/frau_800x600.jpg
Seven wrote:The Nehor wrote:I think she was on the way out when she first started posting. I remember her first postings.
She seemed dedicated to making changes in the food allergy procedures of the LDS Church. She wanted to change Church Policy by any means. Her attempts were rebuffed and she was annoyed. She came to the boards for support and was (in my opinion rightly) told that she has no business trying to make the changes she wanted to.
Her posts graduated to become small rants against some of her leaders and requests for explanations for things she had learned in EV Bible Study. I think Maggie wanted out but was afraid to leave. I think Juliann had as much to do with it as I did....which I hope was nothing.
I disagree. The majority of newbies that are LDS going to FAIR/MAD for help, information etc. are desperate to save their testimony or they wouldn't be there. It is NORMAL they will be critical of the church if they have found their way to MAD. Something or someone has given them reason to doubt and they have most likely read some very negative history on the church before finding MAD. I have never personally spoken in person or online with someone who as you said "WANTED OUT, but was afraid to leave." Most people don't DESIRE to leave but are only trying to reconcile the true history with their testimony based on the sanitized version.
You see it a hundred times on MAD. A newbie comes in and is pounced on by rabid aplogists and TBMs who declare it must be a troll. They won't show any compassion or understanding for how hard and painful it is to have that world you once knew destroyed. Oh, how I used to wish I could unknow what I knew and go back to my Chapel Mormon days. Ignorance was truly bliss. If that person turned out to be a troll, so what? What harm did it cause by being nice and compassionate to them? Most TBMs on that board are only interested in fighting with exMos to strengthen their own beliefs, and not in helping the newbie doubter who has just had their world come crashing down.
Until apologists and TBMs learn to be understanding of this painful stage, they will never help anybody on that discussion board and only drive them to those who will. (exMos) I really appreciate the guy running the "Mormon Stories" website because he is a TBM who is really trying to show compassion and love for those struggling with the new information.
The Nehor wrote:Maggie didn't portray herself as a doubter, she portrayed herself (especially in the beginning) as a rebel. Her first posts were not about getting help but finding allies who would back her up. None did....mostly because we all thought she was wrong. I still do.
