Testimonies and what they contain

[_Jersey Girl]

Gaz may be speaking for some members, but I think Jersey Girl is right in that it does not make too much sense. To me, a testimony is sharing a statement of my core beliefs. Are we to assume that one's core beliefs are altered just to be contrary to what those other Churches' members find to be of importance? That would be bizarre, and yet we know that the bizarre does occur, which is why Gaz may be right in saying that is true for some LDS.

Perhaps the Church leaders, to follow what Jason said regarding talks, should urge members to consider making God and Jesus take priority in their belief system to any consideration to the truth of an institution or a person. The precedence for this has already been stated, in that Jesus appears in the official name of the Church.

Well, what bugged me was that he was saying that because they don't want to sound like Ev's they don't praise Christ much in Fast and Testimony Meeting which means..

they're speaking in a group of their own so why would they care about appearances?

Jersey Girl

[_Gazelam]

Well, what bugged me was that he was saying that because they don't want to sound like Ev's they don't praise Christ much in Fast and Testimony Meeting which means..

they're speaking in a group of their own so why would they care about appearances?

Jersey Girl

It's not about appearances, its about an appropriate approach, and I honestly don't think members even know their doing it. I think its a cultural thing, like if your an oriental and you burp after a meal, in their country its respectful, but here in the US it would be rude.

Am I making any sence?

Theres a viewed approach in how to speak about Christ, and if your overly praiseworthy of him on the stand, your seen as evangelical. There may not be anything wrong with this way of speaking about Christ at all, but this form of praise may seem irreverent. Its like, going to an evangelical Christian church, no one blinks an eye over having a drum kit and electric guitar on the stage, but you would never see this at a Mormon church. In a EV church, this is a form of praise, in a Mormon church, its irreverent.

[_moksha]

Theres a mentality in the church regarding other faiths. We understand that we are the only church that has the authority to baptize and seal covenants. So there is a certain attitude that is taken when viewing other Churches. This can handicap a persons viewpoint if this attitude becomes twisted.
Gaz

Absolutely darn tootin' right! Sometimes in Priesthood meeting when they are talking about another Church, I want to tell them to go see the service for the Church in question themselves and dispel their preconceived notions. I suspect they got them both from something said to them in the MTC and also from watching a televangelist. Neither of these mirrors mainstream Christianity. If Jesus has some importance to our beliefs, we should say so.

Sometimes, I suspect the phrase, "I know this is the true Church" is spoken both as a ritual and to let people know they are of the same collective mind. Sort of a reinforcement of group identity. However, hearing it over and over does give it a rather cult-like overtone. If one did indeed need some peculiarity in their testimony, it should be to leave this phrase out and insert "I have a testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" as Bond suggested.

[_Gazelam]

If one did indeed need some peculiarity in their testimony, it should be to leave this phrase out and insert "I have a testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" as Bond suggested.

Wow, flashback. (My memory is horrible, so I get those alot)

There were a series of testimonies one week that semi discussed this topic. I actually suggested, when I got up, that when we bear our testimonies to others, we should make it a point to not only testify of Joseph Smith, but to make it a point to testify of Jesus Christ so that the view isn't mistaken as to where we stand.

[_gramps]

Gaz wrote:

...I think its a cultural thing, like if your an oriental and you burp after a meal, in their country its respectful, but here in the US it would be rude.

Am I making any sence? (sic)

Hi Gaz, where did you get this idea? The Orient is a big place. It's hard to really hold for an "Oriental culture," don't you think?

Or are you saying that those who live in Turkey, just across the Oriental line, have the same culture as those living in Bali? or Japan, for that matter?

Do all the "Orientals" look the same to you, too?

[_The Nehor]

Gaz wrote:

...I think its a cultural thing, like if your an oriental and you burp after a meal, in their country its respectful, but here in the US it would be rude.

Am I making any sence? (sic)

Hi Gaz, where did you get this idea? The Orient is a big place. It's hard to really hold for an "Oriental culture," don't you think?

Or are you saying that those who live in Turkey, just across the Oriental line, have the same culture as those living in Bali? or Japan, for that matter?

Do all the "Orientals" look the same to you, too?

It's important to remember how little we know of the Orient. They are attempting to learn more: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/c ... oyage_east

[_Selah]

I have noticed that most of the testimonies in my ward offered during our Fast and Testimony Meeting time, contain no reference to God or Jesus but most all invariably contain the statement that "I know this is the true Church". Since I personally identify with progressive Christianity, I would like to hear more devotion to Jesus, but that's just me and I can't really impact what is important to my fellow members.

Has this been your experience as well?

**jumps up and down excitedly**

Oh oh oh -- the bishop at my former ward JUST taught a lesson on this just recently. I still have the notes that were emailed out. Let me share them with you. :)

A testimony is:

A brief, heartfelt expression of belief of the Savior, His teachings, and the Restoration (Worldwide Leadership Training June 21, 2003)
a revelation from the Holy Ghost to the individual giving knowledge that God lives, Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith is a prophet, a prophet heads the Church today, and this is “the only true and living church.” (D&C 1:30.) The revelation usually comes quietly and is felt in the heart. Emerson R. West, “This I Know,” Ensign, Dec. 1993, 26
A testimony is usually defined as knowledge or assurance of a truth that a person declares by the convincing power of the Holy Ghost. The Apostle Paul taught, “No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” (1 Cor. 12:3). Because the things of God are known only by the power of the Spirit, they must be declared by the Spirit, and that means bearing testimony. Jay E. Jensen, “Bearing Testimony,” Ensign, Oct. 2005, 22

Because the lesson was on how to properly give a testimony on Fast and Testimony Sunday of course the lesson also included what a testimony is not...

A testimony is not:

(a memorized statement)
(Talk, a sermon, or an exhortation) Individuals who stand and exhort others in a fast and testimony meeting or even try to call others to repentance, even with the best of intentions, are usurping authority and are often offending others and disrupting the spirit of the meeting. Jay E. Jensen, “Bearing Testimony,” Ensign, Oct. 2005, 22
(Travelogue, storytelling, or joke time) Giving travelogues, preaching, or telling others how to live may be inappropriate. We should be careful with the use of humor, as it may be misunderstood or detract from the Spirit. Emerson R. West, “This I Know,” Ensign, Dec. 1993, 26
(a confession time) We should avoid discussing our faults and sins and the weaknesses and sins of others. Such matters should be handled on a one-to-one basis in a spirit of love. It is much more uplifting and motivating if we relate faith-promoting experiences that demonstrate the Lord’s help. Emerson R. West, “This I Know,” Ensign, Dec. 1993, 26
· (a venting session) unloading personal challenges, giving preachments, making repetitious statements, or saying and doing anything that detracts from the Spirit. Carl B. Cook, “When Children Want to Bear Testimony,” Ensign, Dec. 2002, 29

(sharing of intimate matters) It is not appropriate to reveal intimate details of sacred experiences or to relate the confidential experiences of others. Be very careful about quoting from your patriarchal blessing because of its sacred nature. You should never relate stories about others’ patriarchal blessings without permission. Share personal experiences only as you feel the promptings of the Holy Ghost. Emerson R. West, “This I Know,” Ensign, Dec. 1993, 26

Although, even after this lesson was given (back in Feb 07) it still seemed to me that plenty of people totally bypassed the good Bishop's teachings and would do atleast two of the no no's. Perhaps it was just habit for them? It does take a while to break a habit.

You might be noticing that testimonies revolve around the true church and whatnot because that's what makes the LDS church unique. Just as I notice that when people come to visit Steve and I whenever they leave a word of scripture with us it's always from the other standard works and rarely -almost never- from the Bible and that's probably because it's what makes the Church unique.

[_Blixa]

That's interesting, Selah. That there had to be such a lesson sort of implies that most testimonies were falling into that second ("what it isn't") category.

I never bore "my" testimony in church. Of course I rarely attended any F&T meeting during my brief tenure in the church (up to around age 16). Those that I did hear could all be taken from the examples in the second category (with a few elements from the first, "I know Joseph Smith is a prophet," etc.) and as teenager I thought they were very corny, another reason I wouldn't have been caught dead doing that.

I'm still taken aback by the whole practice. I don't think there is anything "wrong" about publically declaring one's heartfelt love for God, or deep belief in the gospel, whether I believe in those things or not (I don't). What I find odd is the "requirement" to do this and the ritualized format of it ("I know the church is true": a nonsensical-sounding phrase at best).

Anybody else never never bear yours?

[_harmony]

We have no canonized date for the crucifixion and ressurection. I guess we're all screwed eh?

Well, not exactly screwed. We do have a canonized place. And we have at least four canonized versions of the event itself. And at least there were some witnesses. Nothing about the restoration of the Melch priesthood is in the canon at all, until afterwards. Very convenient, that. Especially since it appears that Joseph was fooling around with Fanny before the sealing power was restored, so the powers that be backdated the restorative revelation.

I have repeatedly given you all the known details regarding the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood. That they are not canonized really doesent matter.

It matters, Gaz. I can't believe you think it doesn't matter! The canon is where we derive our doctrine from. Otherwise there is no need for canonization. If the restoration of the Melch priesthood isn't in the canon, how can it be doctrinal?

Your(sic) being ridiculous.

Of course you think I am being ridiculous. You can't produce the revelation and it irritates you when I point out the lack of authority that causes. There are serious gaps in the line of authority in the church, Gaz, and you know it, even if you won't admit it.

And by the way, I don't think, I know. Your husband does as well, why don't you go talk to him and listen for once.

No one knows. My husband at least is smart enough to know he doesn't know. He has faith. You, on the other hand, have no faith.

[_Gazelam]

All I know is that theres some country where burping after a meal is considered respectful. Which one it is I have no idea. I was merely trying to make a point.

If I was wrong or disrespectful, I apologize.