Prayer perspective...

[_Gazelam]

What both of you fail to realize is that the only reason either of you have any understanding to contend over is because of the testimony of prophets.

The only reason you have faith at all is because of the prophets God has sent to testify to us all.

The question then is, where is your foundation, what point are you ready to stand upon and call solid ground for your testimony?

My question to God was, is this your true church. That being yes, then I know where to rest my faith and what prophets to trust, and in all my studies, I am not disappointed.

Where does your foundation lie?

[_harmony]

What both of you fail to realize is that the only reason either of you have any understanding to contend over is because of the testimony of prophets.

The only reason you have faith at all is because of the prophets God has sent to testify to us all.

The question then is, where is your foundation, what point are you ready to stand upon and call solid ground for your testimony?

My question to God was, is this your true church. That being yes, then I know where to rest my faith and what prophets to trust, and in all my studies, I am not disappointed.

Where does your foundation lie?

No, Gaz. The reason I have understanding is because of my personal relationship with God, built over a lifetime of listening to the promptings of the spirit, and his voice in my ear. And on him alone do I rest, in him alone do I place my trust, not men... never men. I have never been led astray when I listened to God. I have been led astray by men, however, repeatedly. I have never had to say "I saw through a glass darkly" when I followed the promptings from God. I have had to say that I was wrong, when I followed men's advice though. And some of those men were prophets.

[_Roger Morrison]

Gaz, will you please find "my" statement, "...no belief in God."?? Then, we can proceed further... Warm regards, Roger

Perhaps I was wrong in claiming that you have ever actually stated it outright, but I get the feeling that you imply it when I read your posts.

In going through some of your old posts in an effort to back up my statement, I see that you do have some belief in a "GOD", but it seems that you don't believe in any particular testimony that a prophet has given. Your "choosy" in what testimony you accept by the prophets.

So I guess I need to recant that you have no belief in God.

Could you please share your testimony regarding God as oyu see him?

Thanks

Gaz, i don't know how you, or others will receive/understand the thoughts of my daughter, re her request for "Prayer" that opened this topic. Non-the-less it is pasted below to indicate faith in a power that manifested to her that there IS a source of power that can be activated by right-mindedness. It seems to me, to be the same power of non-violence called upn by Ghandi, MLK Jr, and others of faith in the power of the Universe to do the deed when humanity works within "the two new commandments" creed...


Gaz

Thank you everyone for all the beautiful energy you have been sending of love, light and unity.....it has kept me up for days!!!

After sending out the email "Request for Prayers" on Wednesday morning (my time) I didn't sleep until 3:30 AM Saturday (my time)!!! That's how much energy has been surging through me and flowing through my thoughts and imagination to the Red Sea coast, the South Sinai and beyond.

So know that your efforts have not gone to waste. We are having a very peaceful weekend here in Dahab--a major party event that bused in 100s of tourists visiting the Sinai from around the world, and many Egyptians even went down smoothly, with lots of peaceful partying.

I thank you all for your generous devotion of energy, and in some cases selfless discipline at keeping fear far away from here--for this I am most grateful.

I have felt an abundance of strength, positivity, possibility, faith and the constant embrace of God this weekend, and know that it is what I received from you.

Thank you.

Still dancing,
Autumn xo

As for your question to me re my "testimony of God"... Respectfully, such a "statement" is really beyond my ability to articulate. IF i could, or would, i doubt it would have but little meaning to You; at this stage of your evolution...

You have been privy to many patient attempts of GIMR, Harmony, and others to explain their beliefs and reasonings to You. But it would seem to be to no avail. You callously referred to one person's attempt to do so as a "...some shmeal...". Hardly a mode of learning...

That you constantly place Your faith in the arms-of-flesh, and attempt to convince others--who have moved beyond that state of dependency--to step back into the authoritarian ritualistic classroom, from which graduation is THE objective in one's journey of enlightenment, is to say the least: a test of patience ;-) Warm regards, Roger

[_Gazelam]

A testimony that is inarticulate is no testimony at all. Imagine if Moses, or Christ felt that way? The idea is to lead people to God, not tell them to sit like a buddhist and moan "Ohhhhmmmmm" and feel their way to a sence of spirituality.

All roads do not lead to Rome Christ didn't approach the Sanhedran and say "Hey, great job guys, your following what you believe is right, way to go."

Elijah as well, I love the tale of him setting up the bar-b-q and inviting everyone down and having the big cookoff where they all held hands and partied it up.

There is one truth, there is one plan of salvation, and there is only one baptism. Any other view is apostate and wrong. And you know it.

[_harmony]

A testimony that is inarticulate is no testimony at all. Imagine if Moses, or Christ felt that way? The idea is to lead people to God, not tell them to sit like a buddhist and moan "Ohhhhmmmmm" and feel their way to a sence of spirituality.

All roads do not lead to Rome Christ didn't approach the Sanhedran and say "Hey, great job guys, your following what you believe is right, way to go."

Elijah as well, I love the tale of him setting up the bar-b-q and inviting everyone down and having the big cookoff where they all held hands and partied it up.

There is one truth, there is one plan of salvation, and there is only one baptism. Any other view is apostate and wrong. And you know it.

The ancients were not always right, Gaz. Surely you do not need me to point out once again when they were wrong, do you?

[_Sam Harris]

What both of you fail to realize is that the only reason either of you have any understanding to contend over is because of the testimony of prophets.

The only reason you have faith at all is because of the prophets God has sent to testify to us all.

The question then is, where is your foundation, what point are you ready to stand upon and call solid ground for your testimony?

My question to God was, is this your true church. That being yes, then I know where to rest my faith and what prophets to trust, and in all my studies, I am not disappointed.

Where does your foundation lie?

No, honey. No prophet told me what I was worth to God. That interaction started on a playground with no one around 21 years ago.

We still have the choice to listen. We have the choice to act on what we listen.

I don't need a true church, I don't need something to place me apart from (and in many people's opinion who hang onto dogma, above) other people.

Gaz, you don't realize this, but a great deal of what you are promoting is divisiveness.

[_Sam Harris]

A testimony that is inarticulate is no testimony at all. Imagine if Moses, or Christ felt that way? The idea is to lead people to God, not tell them to sit like a buddhist and moan "Ohhhhmmmmm" and feel their way to a sence of spirituality.

All roads do not lead to Rome Christ didn't approach the Sanhedran and say "Hey, great job guys, your following what you believe is right, way to go."

Elijah as well, I love the tale of him setting up the bar-b-q and inviting everyone down and having the big cookoff where they all held hands and partied it up.

There is one truth, there is one plan of salvation, and there is only one baptism. Any other view is apostate and wrong. And you know it.

Gaz, why does someone have to put their love of God into words for you?

There are some who have chosen to go past the external, to look past the vehicle to the journey and ultimately the destination.

Forgive us for not being concerned with having spiritual lexuses to ride in. My jalopy works just fine. It may not kneel to pray, it may not have some old man who doesn't know me to tell me what to do, it may not even have the brand name of "one true" placed on it, but IT WORKS.

I don't need to look special before others to know I'm special to God.

[_Gazelam]

Lets break this down a little. Is the Book of Acts true scripture to you? How about the epistles, are they trustworthy?
If not, please list the ones you do find to carry weight.

Harmony and Roger, feel free to answer this as well.

[_Roger Morrison]

Lets break this down a little. Is the Book of Acts true scripture to you? How about the epistles, are they trustworthy?
If not, please list the ones you do find to carry weight.

Harmony and Roger, feel free to answer this as well.

Gaz, I suggest, rather than "break (it) down"... "we open it up." We find 'Acts' to be a book writen several decades after Christ's death. It supposedly is the words and works of those who attempted to "feed my sheep". As such it is what we have of their efforts. I say to them, "well done! Thanks!"

It is historical Christianity. It is personal adventure & misadventure of Peter, Barnabus, Silas, Stephen, Saul/Paul and others. It tells of disputes and there resolutions by those with differing opinions and dispositions. It is drama & tragedy, with little humour. It is hard not to appreciate the trials & tribulations of those involved in the epic... It is a text book, as any other text book from which we learn of times not our own, recorded by people we generally feel confident of having recorded things honestly as they perceived them personally and/or from 'interviews' of others.

The "Epistles" are for the most part written by Paul to Congregations of Believers. They are encouragings, warnings, praises, and admonishments as Paul deemed necessary in that time to maintain the decorum and traditions that he felt would keep the communities whole & holy. They worked well enough to do that. If Paul was writing in our times & circumstances, i think it safe to say there would be literal changes... As Roger considers your question.

How this bears on the topic of "Prayer Perception" i'm not quite sure??? I will say though, "your insensitive, and rude, comments re my admission of inadequacy to state my "testimony" to your satisfaction, was in itself revealing; as was your condemnation of a Spirituality that obviously You consider inferrior to what You think to be 'true' by LDS opinion.

Of course you are welcome to believe what you will, as are we all. Some kowing "God" 'loves' irrespective of beliefs. Others finding that highly unlikely. What group do You, Gaz, place your self in?? Warm regards, Roger

[_Gazelam]

How this bears on the topic of "Prayer Perception" I'm not quite sure??? I will say though, "your insensitive, and rude, comments re my admission of inadequacy to state my "testimony" to your satisfaction, was in itself revealing; as was your condemnation of a Spirituality that obviously You consider inferrior to what You think to be 'true' by LDS opinion.

Let me put it this way. A tribe is praying to, sacrificeing to, and worshiping a graven Idol. Is this just as worthy of salvation to you as the worship of Christ?