Persecuation

[_Selah]

I just wrote a blog on this -- but I wanted to discuss the topic more fully. IMHO, I've become of the mindset it's such a blessing and a reminder of just how in control God really is.

In Psalms we read:

Psalms 150:1-2
Praise ye Jehovah. Praise God in his sanctuary: Praise him in the firmament of his power.
Praise him for his mighty acts: Praise him according to his excellent greatness.

We praise Him for His power, for His mighty acts, and His greatness. We know He is in ultimate control of all things - even when we die. Peter tells us to rejoice if we are to suffer with Christ, Christ even tells us to take up our crosses and follow Him.

Jesus said, " I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world." (Matt 28:20).

However, it seems to have become such a burden in today's Christian (both LDS and non-LDS) world today. It makes them angry, outspoke, one against another, and rotten even. I'm wondering - the early LDS Christian pioneers knew and understood how persecuation made them grow and mature, yet today's LDS don't seem to have an appreciation for it. The early Christians also seemed to have an understanding of it as well (we can see Justin Martyr (sp?) I believe as the example - not to mention some examples as well as Joan of Arc and many others who suffered and even died - including of course the apostles themselves).

So what are your thoughts on persecuation? Is it going south like the term "submission" did in Christian churches? Is it suddenly becoming a bad thing? Something to become outspoken against? Or is it still something to rejoice in and to learn, mature, and grow in?

[_Sethbag]

I don't think persecution is anything to rejoice in.

I also don't happen to think that Mormons, or Christians in general, are really persecuted very much if at all. I think the "persecution" they experience is largely a figment of their imagination, or else something they bring on themselves by being so "in your face" with everyone else. I'm speaking in generalities, of course. It's probably possible to drum up an example of someone who was in fact really persecuted. Oh well.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

I don't think persecution is anything to rejoice in.

I also don't happen to think that Mormons, or Christians in general, are really persecuted very much if at all. I think the "persecution" they experience is largely a figment of their imagination, or else something they bring on themselves by being so "in your face" with everyone else. I'm speaking in generalities, of course. It's probably possible to drum up an example of someone who was in fact really persecuted. Oh well.

Have to agree with this, totally (except maybe for some Christians in some other countries).

Selah, are you a former Mormon? You've probably answered this question already in other threads, sorry, but I'm just wondering.

I don't remember the word "submission" coming up in church much (in my dim memory of Mormonism), but persecution is another thing. I've heard the idea that if you aren't being persecuted then you aren't living your religion right from Mormons and Baptists, and I personally think it's an unhealthy idea. We can certainly learn from our mistakes and struggles, and I'm struggling right now to put my thoughts into words, but glorifying persecution seems to me to be antithetical to spirituality.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Selah...

We praise Him for His power, for His mighty acts, and His greatness. We know He is in ultimate control of all things - even when we die. Peter tells us to rejoice if we are to suffer with Christ, Christ even tells us to take up our crosses and follow Him.
Jesus said, " I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world." (Matt 28:20).

The bolded part is the difficult issue for me. :-(

However, it seems to have become such a burden in today's Christian (both LDS and non-LDS) world today. It makes them angry, outspoke, one against another, and rotten even. I'm wondering - the early LDS Christian pioneers knew and understood how persecuation made them grow and mature, yet today's LDS don't seem to have an appreciation for it. The early Christians also seemed to have an understanding of it as well (we can see Justin Martyr (sp?) I believe as the example - not to mention some examples as well as Joan of Arc and many others who suffered and even died - including of course the apostles themselves).

History is replete with examples of folks who have been persecuted. Are you saying everyone should rejoice in horrific treatment? Or only those who are Christian? Only those who are persecuted or those who are persecuting as well? I'm not sure if I understand you on this...

So what are your thoughts on persecuation?

It is wrong and unhealthy.

Is it going south like the term "submission" did in Christian churches? Is it suddenly becoming a bad thing?

I think it has always been a "bad thing."

Something to become outspoken against? Or is it still something to rejoice in and to learn, mature, and grow in?

I for one am not happy when I see people persecuted. I do not rejoice in cruelty to others.

I hope our world will someday find a way to live in peace.

~dancer~

[_Sam Harris]

My opinion of persecution is that it's a part of life, people tend to (for whatever reason) infringe upon the personal space of others, be it emotionally or otherwise. I think in the sense of religious persecution, sethbag is right, Christians at least here in the West aren't being persecuted. I think that many LDS tend to romanticize the term, as do many conservative Christians, but that's just a form of temper-tantrum throwing to me. You holler that people are persecuting you due to religion so you get your way on some spiritual issue that is of great importance to you.

I've come to realize that in life you're always going to have enemies. You're always going to have at least one person who is "out to get you". The key is learning how to deal with such a situation. The Godly way of dealing with persecution? That's open to interpretation. Me, I think that at times I've long since hit my limit of seventy times seven in dealing with some folks...but being cruel isn't going to change them.

[_wenglund]

While I do have a healthy depth of appreciation and respect for the suffering that our forefathers may have been caused to endure for their respective causes, I see little or no value in thinking of myself in any persecutive or victimological way (even were I to suppose there were any reason to do so--which I don't). I prefer instead to define myself by what I, personally, may become and may do, rather than what others may or may not do to me. And, I extend that way of thinking to my Church.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

While I do have a healthy depth of appreciation and respect for the suffering that our forefathers may have been caused to endure for their respective causes, I see little or no value in thinking of myself in any persecutive or victimological way (even were I to suppose there were any reason to do so--which I don't). I prefer instead to define myself by what I, personally, may become and may do, rather than what others may or may not do to me. And, I extend that way of thinking to my Church.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Uh-huh. Do you wake up every morning on the ceiling?

[_Gazelam]

Persecution in other parts of the world towards Christians is a far different thing than persecution here in America. In other parts of the world you can be killed for preaching and/or practicing Christianity.

D&C 40:2
"...... and the fear of persecution and the cares of the world" cause many "to reject the word. ..."

Let me give an example. I make it perfectly clear that I am a Mormon to my coworkers, discussing with them priesthood lessons and various gospel topics when opportunity occurs. Some are willing to discuss it, and others not.

because of this, some of the more seedy characters I work with take great delight in raunchy talk and foul language. (On other occasions some catch themselves and actually apologize for their language.) They also find it funy to put pornographic magazines in my lunchbox, or on my windshield.

Now if their opinion mattered to me, it would be easy to gain their friendship by going to the strip club and drinking whiskey with them and staring at the naked dancing girls and discussing my sex life with my wife with them (Which seems to facinate them for some reason, not that I've ever told them anything at all)

Its called being "a strange thing in the land." (Moses 6:37-38) And it goes along with "choosing this day whom you will serve." (Josh 24:15)

Whose opinion matters more to you, the Lords, or your friends and aquaintences.

[_Some Schmo]

Yeah, I think Sethbag nailed it too. If anything, atheists are most persecuted than Xtians, in that they're the demographic least likely to be elected to positions of authority (according to a recent poll I heard about but don't have any references to so take it for what it's worth...) Let's face it; Bush got elected largely because he appealed to the religious right... *puke*. But even at that, I don't really consider atheists persecuted.

I think it's pretty amusing that if you listen to Internet Mormons talk about places like RFM or any other exmo board, they're constantly criticizing exmos for taking on the victim status. Hmmm... I wonder where the exmos would have learned that? I suppose one of the big things an exmo has to recover from is thinking there's virtue in being a martyr for your beliefs.

[_Runtu]

Yeah, I think Sethbag nailed it too. If anything, atheists are most persecuted than Xtians, in that they're the demographic least likely to be elected to positions of authority (according to a recent poll I heard about but don't have any references to so take it for what it's worth...) Let's face it; Bush got elected largely because he appealed to the religious right... *puke*. But even at that, I don't really consider atheists persecuted.

I think it's pretty amusing that if you listen to Internet Mormons talk about places like RFM or any other exmo board, they're constantly criticizing exmos for taking on the victim status. Hmmm... I wonder where the exmos would have learned that? I suppose one of the big things an exmo has to recover from is thinking there's virtue in being a martyr for your beliefs.

Not long ago my mother said something about how the media and the rest of the world were really focused on attacking the church, and I wondered what she was talking about. From what I can see, no one pays much attention to the church except when there's a reason to, such as the Elizabeth Smart case or Mitt Romney's campaign. But, persecuted? Not hardly.