Apostasy and authority

[_Seven]

In reading some EV teachings, they do believe in baptism by immersion, blessing a baby, and your basic Christian principles. They don't believe a Priesthood authority is necessary to perform these ordinances or that Christ set up a church with higher Priesthood authority. For the EV's out there, or others knowledgable on EV teachings, is there much scriptural back up for this belief?

Mormons believe in the Great Apostacy and EVs also believe in an apostacy of the Catholic church. Were there other dispensations where a Prophet had to "restore" the keys/true church and authority back to earth from an apostacy?

The claims of Mormonism and of other faiths all come down to the question of Priesthood authority "keys" and if they are required. (going with the belief that baptism is a required ordiances as Jesus taught)

[_moksha]

They don't believe a Priesthood authority is necessary to perform these ordinances or that Christ set up a church with higher Priesthood authority. For the EV's out there, or others knowledgeable on EV teachings, is there much scriptural back up for this belief?

I think they would argue that lack of a scriptural basis for such a priesthood is their justification.

[_Gazelam]

I can't remember where the scripture is, I tohught it was in Hebrews, but EV's basicly believe that once they have a witness of the spirit that the Bible is the word of God, then they have authority to baptise. preach, etc....

I'll try to find the scripture reference. Theres plenty of evidence to the contrary to what they claim, but its an interesting stance. What else could they claim since they are breakaways from the Catholic Church?

[_richardMdBorn]

Hi Seven,

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

1 Peter 2:9

Believers in Jesus are priests. They have no need for a supposed restoration to give them this authority.

38John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us."
39But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.
40"For he who is not against us is for us.

Mark 9

Note that it was not necessary to follow the disciples but rather the One in whom the deeds were done.

24but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Heb 7

We depend on the priesthood of Jesus, which is permanent, not the priesthood of men.

27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Heb 9

One of the purposes of the Old Testament priests was to offer animal sacrifices. I thought that the LDS believed in a restoration of all things. This obviously does not need to be restored since Christ's sacrifice eliminates the need for animal sacrifices.

[_Jersey Girl]

I don't even know what priesthood keys means. Can someone explain?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

I don't even know what priesthood keys means. Can someone explain?

In Nauvoo they were keys to chastity belts.

[_Seven]

Hi Seven,

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

1 Peter 2:9

Believers in Jesus are priests. They have no need for a supposed restoration to give them this authority.

38John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us."
39But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me.
40"For he who is not against us is for us.

Mark 9

Note that it was not necessary to follow the disciples but rather the One in whom the deeds were done.

24but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Heb 7

We depend on the priesthood of Jesus, which is permanent, not the priesthood of men.

27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Heb 9

One of the purposes of the Old Testament priests was to offer animal sacrifices. I thought that the LDS believed in a restoration of all things. This obviously does not need to be restored since Christ's sacrifice eliminates the need for animal sacrifices.

Thanks Richard. :)
I became interested in this topic when I recently contemplated attending a EV church nearby. I have never gone to any church besides an LDS chapel in my life so it's raising many questions for me.

Is there anybody out there with the LDS scriptural response or links to some good debates with EVs on this topic?

[_The Nehor]

I don't even know what priesthood keys means. Can someone explain?

The keys are the Right to Presidency. They are held by Presidents within the Priesthood. They are the power to direct Priesthood actions. The President of the Deacons Quorum has the keys of Presidency and can direct those in his quorum on how to...and how not to use their Priesthood.

The higher the Presidency in the Church the more that is entailed by the keys. The President of the High Priesthood has the power to direct all Priesthood keys. In other words he can tell anyone how or how not to use any Priesthood Power. If President Hinckley were to tell me to do any Priesthood Ordinance that he holds the keys for (the only ones I know of that I don't think he has are those of translation and resurrection) then I could do it.

Some ordinances require no keys directing them such as blessing the sick or giving blessings though the man holding the keys could forbid such an action. Other ordinances are limited and can be done only with the person holding the keys directing them. These include the Sacrament, Baptism, Gift of the Holy Ghost, etc.

The way it was described to me was that when I turned 16 I got my Driver's License (Priesthood). However my parents held the keys for some time and until they said so, I wasn't going anywhere.

[_Tommy]

I don't even know what priesthood keys means. Can someone explain?

Why certainly my good sister! The priesthood is the authority to act on behalf of God, and the keys within the priesthood relate to the varying functions that can be performed within that priesthood. Both president Hinckley and the secretary within any Elder's Quorum within any ward hold the same priesthood. But the Elder's Quorum secretary doesn't hold the keys for the gathering of Israel, for instance. At any time, President Hinckley may call the lost 10 tribes home. He holds the keys for that and the secretary does not. But the secretary holds the keys to officiate in the matter of documenting class attendence for his ward, as does President Hinckley since he holds all keys, but the Stake President in another state would not.

The priesthood is marvelous and wonderful.

[_moksha]

I don't even know what priesthood keys means. Can someone explain?

Why certainly my good sister! The priesthood is the authority to act on behalf of God, and the keys within the priesthood relate to the varying functions that can be performed within that priesthood. Both president Hinckley and the secretary within any Elder's Quorum within any ward hold the same priesthood. But the Elder's Quorum secretary doesn't hold the keys for the gathering of Israel, for instance. At any time, President Hinckley may call the lost 10 tribes home. He holds the keys for that and the secretary does not. But the secretary holds the keys to officiate in the matter of documenting class attendence for his ward, as does President Hinckley since he holds all keys, but the Stake President in another state would not.

The priesthood is marvelous and wonderful.

The secretary also holds the keys to the supply closet. What would a Gatekeeper be without a Keymaster?