Have you ever had any experiences with manipulating Mormons

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_Mr. Coffee
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Post by _Mr. Coffee »

Coggins7 wrote:I'm wondering, do you accept the New Testament as the word of God?


Coggins, the entire New Testament is annecdote. It even says so in the chapter names. The "Gsopel of St. etc" Old Testament the "Revelation of St. etc" or "St. etc Letter To etc".

The Old Testament at least didn't say "Hey, this is the story according to someone other than God". So, no. It's not the word of god, at best it's a testament of ment who thought it was (annecdotal evidence), at worse it's more fantasy.
On Mathematics: I divided by zero! Oh SHI....
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Sorry, its a little late, so I'll have to get back to this tomorrow, as my brain is on slow fizz. We'll get back to this presently.

Loran
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.


- Thomas S. Monson
_Polygamy Porter
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Post by _Polygamy Porter »

Sethbag wrote:For what it's worth, Schmo can do what he likes, but I would go back to full activity in the church, and profess total agreement with everything, for a billion dollars.

For that matter, I'd do that for a measly million dollars. Oops, shouldn't have said that, maybe someone would have given me the full billion.

:-)
You and Hinck! LOL!
_Polygamy Porter
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Post by _Polygamy Porter »

Coggins7 wrote:
Thank you; well I guess it all comes down to that I don't accept the bishop's and prophet's advice as binding to me, for I don't really accept that they are truely in the accepted positions that they claim in respect to me (meaning I don't accept that they haven't spiritual charge over me). I believe that I am better to recieve revelations for myself than they would be. Perhaps the question, though is to ask if I am really Mormon at all. But I do understand what you are saying, and you do make some good points.



I'm wondering, do you accept the New Testament as the word of God?
Oh how cute, he is using the old Bible card.

It is spelled Bible, but pronounced BUY-BULL.
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Oh how cute, he is using the old Bible card.

It is spelled Bible, but pronounced BUY-BULL.




As the introductory narrator on the old Tales From The Darkside used to say, "Try to enjoy the daylight."
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.


- Thomas S. Monson
_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

Hi Livingstone22, in case you're still reading here..."Welcome aboard!" You as valid questions with a good Spirit. You said:
I'm sorry; I'm taken a bit aback. I am new to this board and I was under the impression that it was supposed to be realistic discussions and thoughtful views. Please don't be rude. I think everyone should have the right to feel what they feel and not be disrespected or personally attacked. Please, I am asking with respect that you do not speak to me that way again or make character insinuations; thank you :) I am not comfortable with a lot of things, as a lot of people aren't--I'm sorry; I'm a recent convert and my family isn't Mormon. The church is a bit foreign to me. I think that it is a fair thing to not believe something or another or choose not to do something that you feel is not right for you--but still be loved and accepted with a Christ-like patience.

On an extreme case, though, religions get dangerous is when, for example, the FLDS church tells young girls that they must have sex with their uncles or be damned...now that's wrong. All religions tell people to do certain things, but it becomes bad when pressure and fear is used even though you think it is wrong...and of course it gets worse depending on what is required. (Bold added by RM)


The bolded is well said! Even with a 'smile' :-)! Congratulations on your forth-right objectivity of your expectations re communications between civil strangers. No less should be expected. IF/WHEN the negs flow, simply disregard them as having no value but serving 'one' to better under 'another' :-)

As for your original concerns: I respectfully suggest You have taken upon yourself quite an opportunity to learn... What brought You into LDSism? What is your previous 'religious' back ground? Being the only Mormon member of your family--are you close to them, geographically or lovingly--might present some difficulties; depending on how you are connected to them...

Reading through the many posts, as i assume you have, it is obvious that there is a broad spectrum of personalities, dispositions, and opinions that make up 'believers'... Some/many who still do, and many/some who no longer do. Yet ALL were at one-time as You are now...

In most/many/some cases of Ex-Mos, their LDS experience brings them to better unerdstand themselves as to whether they are seeking ultimate Authority outside themselves. OR finding it within themselves to act responsibly AND accept the consequences of THEIR actions to remain active LDS or become Ex-mo, in one degree or another.

IF/WHEN one makes THEIR decision to go, or stay, in my seriously considered opinion (IMSCO) it will have no bearing what-so-ever on their eternal existance; how/whatever one understands that to be.

So, Livingstone, ask Your questions, seek Your answers, listen to the words spoken and the spirit of the delivery--as you already have :-)--enjoy it all you can and stay, or leave, as YOUR enjoyment dictates. Joseph Smith, is said to have said, "...man (and woman :-) is (are) that they may have joy..." I like that idea. Sort of sets a guide-line???

As a thoughtful, understanding LDS Christian dissident, i respectfully suggest: "NO CHURCH CAN GET YOU INTO, OR KEEP YOU OUT OF, HEAVEN!!" That's a complete & total DIY thing... IF...

OTOH, Churches can & do provide many comforts and advantages to their congregations/members. Some better than others. Try several of them on for YOUR fit...One size doesn't fit ALL... Warm regards, Roger
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

I had anticipated that there would be some on this board that would fail to grasp the clear distinction between "High Machs" and people acting selflessly in the service of their God.


What is so selfless about going on a mission?

We liked to call it "service" but I don't remember too many people feeling as though we were "serving" them. Service projects were cut down because too many missionaries were getting hurt doing stuff like moving furniture. A good portion of my companions went on missions for reasons that are far from selfless.

Their girlfriend won't marry them unless they're RMs. Their Mom or Dad or both won't pay for their school or make their car payments unless they went. The reasons I have heard are crazy and long, but I don't remember too many people who actually "sacrificed" anything to go on a mission. At least not in the sense that a Catholic Priest or Nun makes sacrifices.

People always referred to my mission as a particularly huge sacrifice because I had just joined the Church a year earlier and my family abandoned me for being baptized LDS. But I never felt like I was sacrificing anything by going on a mission. It wasn't even my idea; my bishop brought it up. Heck, I got to travel to California and Europe, and live for two years with full coverage health insurance without paying a dime of my own money. I never did how so many LDS think this is "service." The only thing you're really sacrificing is time-out from finishing school.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Gazelam
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Roger

Post by _Gazelam »

As a thoughtful, understanding LDS Christian dissident, I respectfully suggest: "NO CHURCH CAN GET YOU INTO, OR KEEP YOU OUT OF, HEAVEN!!" That's a complete & total DIY thing... IF...

OTOH, Churches can & do provide many comforts and advantages to their congregations/members. Some better than others. Try several of them on for YOUR fit...One size doesn't fit ALL... Warm regards, Roger


Roger your being ridiculous.

God is a God of order, not confusion. The priesthood is designed to ensure correct teachings and to seal and bind the name of Christ on those being baptised, as well as sealing and binding other ordinances.

The very idea that you can believe in whatever you want is ludicrous. Does this mean a person can just toss the notion of Christ out the window if he thinks Christs teaching are too confining? A Muslim is just as capable of going to heaven as a Christian? This would be true if they accept Christ after hearing about him for the first time after death and receives him there, but according to you this is unnecessary.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Roger Morrison
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Re: Roger

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Gazelam wrote:
As a thoughtful, understanding LDS Christian dissident, I respectfully suggest: "NO CHURCH CAN GET YOU INTO, OR KEEP YOU OUT OF, HEAVEN!!" That's a complete & total DIY thing... IF...

OTOH, Churches can & do provide many comforts and advantages to their congregations/members. Some better than others. Try several of them on for YOUR fit...One size doesn't fit ALL... Warm regards, Roger


Roger your being ridiculous.

God is a God of order, not confusion. The priesthood is designed to ensure correct teachings and to seal and bind the name of Christ on those being baptised, as well as sealing and binding other ordinances.

The very idea that you can believe in whatever you want is ludicrous. Does this mean a person can just toss the notion of Christ out the window if he thinks Christs teaching are too confining? A Muslim is just as capable of going to heaven as a Christian? This would be true if they accept Christ after hearing about him for the first time after death and receives him there, but according to you this is unnecessary.


Gaz, "Roger...ridiculous." ??? You must be joking!!?? Surely after all our correspondence, & i'd hoped 'communication', You would know i base MY life on Universal Laws! In fact "God's" laws are so Universal that they are at the service of total-humanity, including Muslims! "God" is no respector of persons, rituals or platitudes. Even those of LDS origin and edict. The Universe responds to "...asking...seeking...knocking to receive..." Do you not understand Christ's teachings to be inclusive of ALL who make correct choices worthy of the commensurate 'reward'??

This thinking does not, "... toss the notion of Christ out the window..." I'm not sure why You use the term, "...Christ's teachings are too confining..."?? To ME his teachings are liberating. Do You find them confining, but bearable as your Christian duty? IF so please explain...

One of the errors of Mormonism, which you seem to embrace, is their presumption of "Exclusivity". A most un-Christian attitude and premise upon which to pubicize themselves as family-oriented folks of charitable disposition... Generally speaking: ONLY when you agree with them, & have yer dues fully paid...

Gaz, from MY perspective, and with all due respect of You as an individual, me thinks You might have been sealed and bound to such an extent as to inhibit rational thought. Not your fault; your choice. I hope it brings fulfillment to you in THIS life... When this life has been lived following, as best one can, the Two New Commandments, their reward cannot be witheld, in this life or the next... IF there is one... Warm regards, Roger
_Gazelam
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Roger

Post by _Gazelam »

"God" is no respector of persons, rituals or platitudes.


Does this include the ones he expressly commanded be practiced? Does your belief in Christ extend to the words he stated when he set apart and ordained the apostles to go forth and baptise?

When your studying the words of Christ, how much of what he said and what is described to have been done by him do oyu toss out the window, and how much do you keep? By the time your done, how many of the epistles and how many of the gospels are left in your scriptures?

Christ's teachings are too confining..."?? To ME his teachings are liberating.


You stated that people can believe whatever they want and stil get to heaven. By that notion, you deny Christ and his teaching that "...no man cometh unto the Father but by me and my Law" Kind of takes the wind out of your sails about people of non-christian faiths returning to the presence of the Father doesent it?

"Exclusivity". A most un-Christian attitude


See above

in this life or the next... IF there is one


You claim to be a believer in Christinity, then question the existence of an afterlife? So you believe in Christ, just not in anything he said or did.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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