Childhood obesity in Zion

[_Mr. Coffee]

Damnit, Jersey. I thought there was a board rule that forbad us from agreeing on anything...

Sorry about that, your post hit on my "area".

That was meant as a joke, ya know...

The government has already stepped in to some degree, Head Start with it's emphasis on parent education is at least a half-hearted attempt. What needs to happen is far more complex than I can address on this screen. One area to address, and keep in mind that even small areas of change cost tons in tax dollars if nothing more than documenting changes alone, is fitness across the extended curriculum, starting in the early years.

Like you said, most of these measures are half-hearted at best. I guess I'm a little impartient and a lot more proactive than most people. When I see a problem I don't bother with half-measures, I fix the problem.

Our education systems got more problems then you can shake a really large stick at, but physical fitness is a good starting point. You're dead on about the educational aspects of fitness though. Teaching not just the students, but the parents as well, would go a long way to help things.

We can't regulate parenting,

I don't see why not. We license regulate and license so many other aspects of our culture (driving for example), why not place regulations on parenting and standards defining a minimum level of economic and educational standards for people that wish to have kids. Might throttle back on the grow of the dumbass population. It'd also do wonders for slowing the rate of expansion of the low class and make a reasonable dent in poverty as well. After all, if you can't actually afford to pay for the care and feeding of a child, why should you be allowed to have have one? But that's an entirely different topic.

As I stated, an emphasis on fitness in terms of "learning and doing" (even into the cafeteria as you suggest) and in the latter years of highschool, I'd like to see some child development classes as a requirement of the curriculum

I like the idea on its face. It would give teens an idea of what having to care for an infant entails. While it might not do a damned thing to make them think carefully before they start having sex, it'll at least remind them to use condoms/birthcontrol.

I'd also like to see an extension of that education in required practical experience that is to say...theory in practice by placing all high school Juniors and Seniors in community service settings in our child care centers so that they can learn just what is needed physically, intellectually, emotionally and socially by the infants they themselves will create. A nice side benefit of that is trading the flour sack infants for real experience of the demands of parenting....really great form of birth control, believe me!

Only if the program was under extremely close supervision. Most teens these days I wouldn't entrust a wet bag of dogcrap to, much less a human life.

What we're talking about here is creating widespread social change, coffee. Rome wasn't built in a day and the generational transmission of parenting skills and education no longer exists in this society as norm. What we're talking about, in essence, is letting the government step in and take over the roles previously played out by parents and grandparents. I say that education is the key and that surely can be done without stepping on parental toes.

Education can play a large role in making the changes needed, Jersey. But I'm starting to think that the problems in the system (not just of obesity, but health and education in general) are so wide spread as to need an equally massive change in how we go about doing things.

And yes, I know any solution will be able to happen over night. It's a multi-generational problem, so it'll take a multigenerational solution and the patience to match to correct it.

Follow the money, coffee, that's all I can say.... The public school systems that I interact with do employ nutritionists and dieticians whose professional hands are tied by the very beauracracy that employs them.

Yup, like I said. It'll take a lot of changes and a lot of time. One of the things that needs to change is the beaucrats and the system they operate in. From the guy at the school level all the way up to state and federal levels and even over into the corporate vendors that supply the system.

What's really ate up, is I never noticed the US military to have much trouble with any of this. But then, that's the military and we're talking about dealing with civilians.

One more thing, coffee....the programs that support the types of issues that we're discussing here have been literally (does the general public know this?) slashed to bits as billions have been diverted to support the war in Iraq. One more time for emphasis....follow the money, it'll make your head explode.

Jersey, don't even get me started on the collasial waste of money, men, and materials that's Dubya's foray into Middle Eastern politics.... I swear to Bob I think that man's just damned determined to suprass Woodrow Wilson as the numberone screwup to ever sit in the Oval Office.

[_Jersey Girl]

Just a couple of comments, coffee, or I'll never get off the soap box...


I like the idea on its face. It would give teens an idea of what having to care for an infant entails. While it might not do a damned thing to make them think carefully before they start having sex, it'll at least remind them to use condoms/birthcontrol.

Put them in a toddler room for a week. Just one week!


Jersey Girl wrote:
I'd also like to see an extension of that education in required practical experience that is to say...theory in practice by placing all high school Juniors and Seniors in community service settings in our child care centers so that they can learn just what is needed physically, intellectually, emotionally and socially by the infants they themselves will create. A nice side benefit of that is trading the flour sack infants for real experience of the demands of parenting....really great form of birth control, believe me!

Only if the program was under extremely close supervision. Most teens these days I wouldn't entrust a wet bag of dogcrap to, much less a human life.

State licensed programs are already regulated in such a way to make the supervision of high school students mandatory. Don't ask me how I know.

Soapbox....this society places enormous pressure on it's children to adjust to circumstances and situations that were virtually unheard of even 20 years ago. We see the effects of the institutionalization of America's children every day in the news. Our schools have taken over the job of child rearing to the point of having to add character education to the curriculum. Does that strike you as insane? Some parents, not all, aren't doing their job because they simply don't know how. Along with our ability to relocate just about anywhere in the world, we've sacrificed the built in support system that once was the extended family. Parents pair up with other parents in similar circumstances to produce an effect of the blind leading the blind. Children spend their after school hours in after care programs and following that live in their car or in front of the TV with that bag of cheetos because everyone, including the children, are so freaking tired they can't see or think straight by 8:30 p.m. We spend more time reading the instruction manuals for our electronics than we do reading the instruction manuals for our children and yes they do come with instruction manuals.

When you enlisted or were commissioned into the armed forces, you volunteered for a lifestyle that depended totally on discipline where everything was regulated from the white walls around your ears to the shoe laces in your boots to how much you weigh. If you lived in base housing you were told how two keep your yard, how many pictures to hang on your walls, when to shut off the stereo, and to keep your kids and wife "in line" or suffer the consequences. Bouncing a check at the commissary could land you on your buff ass. Whether or not you engaged in self-discipline prior to your time in service or learned the lifestyle, the type of self discipline that you adopted is clearly absent from the lifestyle of the typical American family.

And this is why I think that is so...if you failed to meet the terms of your enlistment or commission you'd have your CO to answer to. Years ago, if a parent screwed up by bouncing a check (or something to that effect) they might have had to face the authority of their own parents. That type of family style chain of command no longer exits as it once did and no one is landing on their ass except for our children.

They are on their ass in before and after care progams, on their ass in the family car, on their ass in front of the TV and computer and while many are introduced to team sports (soccer, T-ball) at an early age, by the time they hit adolescence they're so burned out from competition and the UNDUE demands that our school systems place on them academically (read:they aren't learning, they're generating funding!) it's no wonder that they turn to TV or drugs to zone out or even to violence. Hell, if I were a powerless 12 year old today I'd wanna kick the crap outta somebody too!

Okay...end of speech. Don't count on it though.

Jersey Girl

(Can we get a word count on the appearance of the word "ass" in this post? ;-)

[_harmony]

From the real world:

PE and Health are not mandated by our state. Therefore, it's a constant battle to keep them in the curriculum.

My daughter is a PE/health teacher in a middle school. She teaches 320 6th, 7th, and 8th graders a day. Yes, that's a correct number: 320. She has 5 periods of PE/health (2 6th, 2 7th, and 1 8th) and 1 period of Journalism. She has one of the most difficult curriculums in the state, and is asked to give her expertise at both the district and the state level. She has a Masters in Teaching and a BS in Kinesiology. She has a coaching certificate, and is one of the few certificated coaches in her district. She coaches 8th grade girls softball.

Her curriculum includes a weight training circuit 3 days a week and outdoor or gym activities 2 days a week. She includes such things as social dance (East Coast swing for the 6th graders, West Coast swing for the 7th graders, and Salsa for the 8th graders), roller blading, and lifetime sports (like softball, volleyball, and basketball). Her health curriculum includes meal planning and keeping a food diary, in addition to the normal sex ed and AIDS curriculum mandated by the state. Her Masters thesis was written around a weight training experiment she developed in her teaching practicum. She has had two papers published and has presented at her national conference.

She is not universally loved in her own building, though. Her administration protects her from the more vicious attacks, but still, she is subjected to numerous verbal assaults on a daily basis... from her fellow teachers. They do not appreciate being compared with her, when she sets the bar so high. Department meetings are torture; staff meetings are somewhat better. She's glad to see the school year end, not because the kids drive her nuts, but because the teachers nagging at her all the time makes life uncomfortable and she needs to regroup. She has a few allies, and they protect each other, but for the most part, her department district-wide would just as soon not have to deal with her ideas about students' health. In the summer, she supervises the city's day camp in the Parks and Rec dept and coaches a summer girls' softball team.

And yes, Coffee: she's in shape.

[_Jersey Girl]

harm

Department meetings are torture; staff meetings are somewhat better. She's glad to see the school year end, not because the kids drive her nuts, but because the teachers nagging at her all the time makes life uncomfortable and she needs to regroup.

I hear ya, Sistah!!!!!

[_Mr. Coffee]

Put them in a toddler room for a week. Just one week!

And then sit back and watch the fun as one of these sociopathic s*** decides to play "shake-da-baby"... I got a better idea... Hand them over to a cadre of Drill Instuctors for a couple of weeks to learn the little cretins some discipline.

And when you break it down Barney Style, that's what's the most lacking quality in the entire system. Discipline. From the students, to the parents, all the way through the system.

State licensed programs are already regulated in such a way to make the supervision of high school students mandatory.

Supervision by who standards? Some diplodink in an office at some state oganization or actual qualified supervision with law enforcement on stand-by along with psychological and criminal screening for all involved?

Soapbox....

I love a good soapbox rant. And I agree with you 100% there, Jersey Girl. So what do we do to fix the problem?

If it were up to me I'd militarize our entire school system, but some group of weak willed panseys won't let me...

Years ago, if a parent screwed up by bouncing a check (or something to that effect) they might have had to face the authority of their own parents. That type of family style chain of command no longer exits as it once did and no one is landing on their ass except for our children.

Then put a chain of command in place that works regardless of parental involvement. Seriously, military style schools would do the trick. Teach them self-desicipline, self-reliance, respect for others, and what the word "integrity" means along with math, science, history, and the rest.

They are on their ass in before and after care progams, on their ass in the family car, on their ass in front of the TV and computer and while many are introduced to team sports (soccer, T-ball) at an early age, by the time they hit adolescence they're so burned out from competition and the UNDUE demands that our school systems place on them academically (read:they aren't learning, they're generating funding!) it's no wonder that they turn to TV or drugs to zone out or even to violence.

Which brings me to another concept I've been kicking around...

While I plaed sports in High School, I really believe that sports programs funded with school funding dollars should be abolished. The only people that ultimately benifit from high school sports programs are porfessional sports organizations, and worse, we're the ones that have to pay for it.

If little Johnnyt Q Numbnutz's Mommy and Daddy want him to be the quaterback of the team, then let them foot the bill. Quit wasting my money on useless crap and start spending it on things that will actually serve to help give students a better education. Hell, maybe even give the teachers a raise with the money saved from not spending on silly assed school sports teams.

As far as violent tendencies... Oh, give me control of the school system and I will fidn ways for them to productively channel their violent tendencies.

Okay...end of speech. Don't count on it though.

Hell, you were on a roll there. When I become Supreme Dictators of the US, I might even consider making you my Minster of Youth Indoctrination.

(Can we get a word count on the appearance of the word "ass" in this post? ;-)

I count five asses, Jersey Girl. That's a decient amount of ass, but I think if you dig deep you could do better.

[_Mr. Coffee]

snip

That's the sort of person I would want teaching Physical Education.

And yes, Coffee: she's in shape.

I demand photographic evidence of your claims! :)

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl: State licensed programs are already regulated in such a way to make the supervision of high school students mandatory.

coffee: Supervision by who standards? Some diplodink in an office at some state oganization or actual qualified supervision with law enforcement on stand-by along with psychological and criminal screening for all involved?

Jersey Girl: The same standards that regulate the early childhood professionals who work in them. Students and others who aren't part of the staffing matrix are not counted in supervision ratios. That is to say that the students "and others" are invisible so far as the state is concerned. Think in terms of student teachers who are never left alone to supervise the class.

Only 5 asses? You forgot yours and mine.

;-)

[_Mr. Coffee]

The same standards that regulate the early childhood professionals who work in them. Students and others who aren't part of the staffing matrix are not counted in supervision ratios. That is to say that the students "and others" are invisible so far as the state is concerned. Think in terms of student teachers who are never left alone to supervise the class.

So it's supervised down to the squad level, basically? That makes about no damned sense at all.... Gee, let's supervise everyone EXCEPT the people most likely to do something egregiously stupid.

Only 5 asses? You forgot yours and mine.

;-)

Strong in the Smartass this one is...

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl: The same standards that regulate the early childhood professionals who work in them. Students and others who aren't part of the staffing matrix are not counted in supervision ratios. That is to say that the students "and others" are invisible so far as the state is concerned. Think in terms of student teachers who are never left alone to supervise the class.

coffee: So it's supervised down to the squad level, basically? That makes about no damned sense at all.... Gee, let's supervise everyone EXCEPT the people most likely to do something egregiously stupid.

Jersey Girl::Every circumstance that involves groupings of children under the supervision of adults other than their parents is regulated at state level, coffee. That includes formal institutions such as schools, recreational organizations such as the YMCA programs. Even scouting groups are held to the same sort of supervisory adult:child ratio standards at a national level that correlate to state regulations; meeting or exceeded them. When student teachers are placed for their student teaching semester, they are not counted in those ratios and not permitted to supervise children alone. They work under the supervision of teaching professionals and paraprofessionals. The adult:child ratios and even the classroom square footage is determined by age and maximum group size. We already have high school and college students placed in our early childhood programs, coffee.( Did you know that? ) What I'm saying is that the same thing can happen for all students that move through our public school systems.


Jersey Girl: Only 5 asses? You forgot yours and mine.

;-)

coffee: Strong in the Smartass this one is...

This one's from Jersey.

[_Gazelam]

How are fat kids supposed to excercise when they're not allowed in the inflatable playhouse?