Coggins7 wrote:...Mr. Mohler believes that I am going to burn forever in the fires of Hell because of my theological differences with him, even if it is the case that I've lived a far better life than he has morally or ethically, simply because I hold doctrinal views at variance with his. I, on the other hand, believe he will be damned; stopped in his progression and growth at some point, if he does not except the truth here when it has been sufficiently presented to him, but that this damnation is a relative thing. If he lived a good and upright Christian life, then I think he will be with Jesus Christ in the next life, regardless of his errors in belief regarding the nature and attrubutes of God and the plan of salvation. He, conversely, thinks that I'll be basting in the pits of Hell for what he considers my doctrinal errors.
This creates a different dynamic, no?
Kind of a glass half full / half empty thing.
Let's cut to the chase - you both think the other is not going to 'heaven' because the other didn't join your church (no matter how 'good' they were in this life).
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Coggins7 wrote:...Mr. Mohler believes that I am going to burn forever in the fires of Hell because of my theological differences with him, even if it is the case that I've lived a far better life than he has morally or ethically, simply because I hold doctrinal views at variance with his. I, on the other hand, believe he will be damned; stopped in his progression and growth at some point, if he does not except the truth here when it has been sufficiently presented to him, but that this damnation is a relative thing. If he lived a good and upright Christian life, then I think he will be with Jesus Christ in the next life, regardless of his errors in belief regarding the nature and attrubutes of God and the plan of salvation. He, conversely, thinks that I'll be basting in the pits of Hell for what he considers my doctrinal errors.
This creates a different dynamic, no?
Kind of a glass half full / half empty thing.
Let's cut to the chase - you both think the other is not going to 'heaven' because the other didn't join your church (no matter how 'good' they were in this life).
Had you phrased the above assertion in question form, I would have been glad to answer it and by the way, I don't have a church.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Let's cut to the chase - you both think the other is not going to 'heaven' because the other didn't join your church (no matter how 'good' they were in this life).
No. He has only one heaven and one Hell, and where one goes can hinge on slight differences in theology . I have a number of "heavens" and the only one he will not be able to attain is the Celestial, or highest. They are all "heavens", including the Telestial. Only Outer Darkness is not a "kingdom of glory".
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.
Let's cut to the chase - you both think the other is not going to 'heaven' because the other didn't join your church (no matter how 'good' they were in this life).
No. He has only one heaven and one Hell, and where one goes can hinge on slight differences in theology . I have a number of "heavens" and the only one he will not be able to attain is the Celestial, or highest. They are all "heavens", including the Telestial. Only Outer Darkness is not a "kingdom of glory".
I was referring to exaltation - heaven - live with god, etc. I don't believe I've heard the t-kingdoms called heaven. kingdom's of glory yes, but not heaven. In fact, I've heard them referred to as hell.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
was referring to exaltation - heaven - live with god, etc. I don't believe I've heard the t-kingdoms called heaven. kingdom's of glory yes, but not heaven. In fact, I've heard them referred to as hell.
They have always been referred to as "heavens" in LDS literature (as in the D&C) as well as in some early New Testament Apocrypha and pre-First Temple Jewish religious texts. Anyone who claims that the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms are "hells" doesn't understand Church doctrine (probably Harmony).
I know there is a sense in which they have been termed to be a kind of hell, in the sense that there will always be an eternal regret and knowledge of opportunities forever lost to one one inhabits these lower Kingdoms, but our scriptures speak of them as "degrees of glory", not hells.
The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.
I think Mohler brings up the real issue: how can the LDS Church today expect to be acceptable to mainstream Christianity when its very beginning was based on a complete separation from the "corrupted" religions of that day?
In my opinion that is a red herring. And the comments from Mohler about the Book of Mormon are asinine. The Book of Mormon very close to the Christian theology of it day and even could be considered some what classical in some of its trinitarion doctrine.
But the LDS Church has never considered all other sect as entirel bereft of truth and true doctrine. Rather the position is one of priesthood authority. Apart from some of the strong rhetoric from 19th century Utah Mormonism the Church does not call other Christian sects non Christian. Perhaps the LDS Church should do so because in it purest form is claims to be THE Church of Jesus Christ.
Mohler's comments are atypical. the LDS Church never claimed to be historical orhodoxy. But it does believe Jesus is the savior of man kind and our only way to salvation as well as all the New Testament teaches about Him. That we understand and believe a different theology about exactly the nature of the godhead is true. That seems enough in Mohler's narrow mind to disqualify the LDS Church from Christianity. Interestingly the trinity dogma took hundreds of years to develop and is still in flux today.
If you want to answer this question (yes) just go to 1 Corinthians 12. We're all part of the body, we're just in different locations. When we stop worrying about who is the head (isn't Christ supposed to be the head, and not a particular church?), we'll be better off.
A Christian is a person who follows Christ. If you want to delve into doctrine and nitpick, then every denomination from the start of Christianity would be suspect.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi