Mormon Misogyny

[_why me]

I don't believe they are taught so. But for KimberlyAnn that is not important. What is important is her own perception or lack of perception on the matter. People are encouraged to get an education, period. This applies to men as to women. Kimberly is blowing a lot of smoke in her posts. I know many highly educated LDS women. I also know many educated home bound moms. KimberlyAnn just has an ax to grind. She needs to head on over to Feministmormonhousewive.org to see the real picture. She would find that LDS women are a very diverse group of people.

why me, perhaps this is her perception and she can only speak of it as such. I think it is reasonable for her to speak of her own experience. I can't discount it. She can even speak to what she observed. It doesn't mean that I, or anyone else, would necessarily believe it is truth for all.

I don't discount it either. But what I do discount is when she generalizes it to a point as a given trait inside the churcb. This was my problem with KimberlyAnn. She does seem to generalize in her posts. I find nothing wrong with what the LDS chruch teaches in regards to women. Women can make their own choices in the church. I can only speak from my won experiences...most LDS women that I know choose to go to school and work. Very few are home makers. However, a mom's place should be in the home....if such a choice is available to the woman.

[_why me]

I lost a baby in my first year of marriage.

My Bishop chastised me for not getting pregnant right away after I lost my first baby. I was even confirmed for a calling and during the confirmation the Bishop said the Lord wanted me to not be selfish and to do my best to bring a spirit child to earth.

That is terrible. I'm sorry for your loss and that someone was so thoughtless to you.

I repeat what barrelomonkeys wrote. I am sorry for your experience. The bishop was also out of line. Such are the weaknesses of men and human beings in general.

[_sailgirl7]

Cheer up women! The men are right! We have no reason to fret or worry! Here's a wise quote we all need to post on our refrigerators.

You are the Relief Society of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is no other organization to equal it. Walk with pride. Hold your heads up. Work with diligence. Do whatever the Church asks you to do. Pray with faith. You may never know how much good you accomplish. Someone’s life will be blessed by your effort.

Gordon B. Hinckley, “To the Women of the Church,” Liahona, Nov 2003, 113–15

So lets all walk with pride, even though pride is a sin, and hold our heads up high and do whatever the church wants- we will all be happy!

[_why me]

It is such nonsense!

Men harken to Christ but women harken to their husbands? What silliness!

So, women are not asked to harken to Christ? Are men not to harken to their wives?

The whole thing is ridiculous! (IMHO)! :-)

How about men and women harken to Christ and each other? Makes a lot more sense to me!

~dancer~

Actually, the way the covenant reads now is exactly how marriage is described in the Bible. The comparison utilized in the Bible is that the Church is like the woman....The Church is bound to Chrtist, and Christ is bound to the Father.

Is it sexist? Yes.

The cultural aspects of how Christianity is laid out is sexist.

But then again, who composed the canon? Men!

Or was it god? And of course he is a man. However, how it is laid out in the scriptures is for the benefit of the family. The family today seems to be in disarray and most of the blame if this is true can be laid at the doorstep of modern times and the concepts of what just is a modern woman. However, I don't know if modern understandings bring contentment. The church is a child centered church and yet, our societies are living in an adult centered world, according to the Christian Science Monitor yesterday. Here if true is the problem with family and a women's role in that society.

[_why me]

Cheer up women! The men are right! We have no reason to fret or worry! Here's a wise quote we all need to post on our refrigerators.

You are the Relief Society of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is no other organization to equal it. Walk with pride. Hold your heads up. Work with diligence. Do whatever the Church asks you to do. Pray with faith. You may never know how much good you accomplish. Someone’s life will be blessed by your effort.

Gordon B. Hinckley, “To the Women of the Church,” Liahona, Nov 2003, 113–15

So lets all walk with pride, even though pride is a sin, and hold our heads up high and do whatever the church wants- we will all be happy!

Actually Russel Ballard in a General Conference talk implied that one should not be afraid to say no to callings. I think that I understood his talk correctly. And of course Hinckley is right. Through work, people can be blessed and we should all pray with faith. Pride is not a sin when such pride is focused in knowledge that what one is doing is helping humanity. The word pride can have a couple of connotations.

[_Yoda]

Or was it god? And of course he is a man. However, how it is laid out in the scriptures is for the benefit of the family. The family today seems to be in disarray and most of the blame if this is true can be laid at the doorstep of modern times and the concepts of what just is a modern woman. However, I don't know if modern understandings bring contentment. The church is a child centered church and yet, our societies are living in an adult centered world, according to the Christian Science Monitor yesterday. Here if true is the problem with family and a women's role in that society.

The Hebrew culture was very male-dominated. The scriptures reflect this culture. Even the more modern scriptures (i.e. the Book of Mormon, the D&C) reflect a culture which is male dominant. It is a male dominant viewpoint which is portrayed.

Christ consistently broke down some of these male-dominant traits. He called women to high positions in the Church, and women were key to many organizational tasks. The Gnostic Bible accounts have quite a few examples. These examples, however, were not selected as part of the biblical canon we have today. Why? Because MEN gathered the information, and it didn't sufficiently fit into THEIR brand of male-dominated culture.

I believe that when Christ returns to the earth, there are going to be some surprises in store in regards to female roles.

[_sailgirl7]

The family today seems to be in disarray and most of the blame if this is true can be laid at the doorstep of modern times and the concepts of what just is a modern woman. However, I don't know if modern understandings bring contentment. The church is a child centered church and yet, our societies are living in an adult centered world, according to the Christian Science Monitor yesterday. Here if true is the problem with family and a women's role in that society.

So the family is in disarray today- and 100, 200, 300, 1000 years ago it was fine. It's all because of "modern" times that life is so bad now. Anyone who has studied history in any detail would probably disagree with such an assessment. Oh that we could go back to the days of yore- when things were so much better. That is a logical fallicy.

And our church is a child-centered church now? I thought it was supposed to be Christ- centered.

[_sailgirl7]

Actually Russel Ballard in a General Conference talk implied that one should not be afraid to say no to callings. I think that I understood his talk correctly. And of course Hinckley is right. Through work, people can be blessed and we should all pray with faith. Pride is not a sin when such pride is focused in knowledge that what one is doing is helping humanity. The word pride can have a couple of connotations.

CFR about pride not being a sin when it "is focused in knowledge that what one is doing is helping humanity."

It's not what I was taught:

Pride is a very misunderstood sin, and many are sinning in ignorance. (See Mosiah 3:11; 3 Ne. 6:18.) In the scriptures there is no such thing as righteous pride—it is always considered a sin. Therefore, no matter how the world uses the term, we must understand how God uses the term so we can understand the language of holy writ and profit thereby. (See 2 Ne. 4:15; Mosiah 1:3–7; Alma 5:61.)

Ezra Taft Benson, “Beware of Pride,” Ensign, May 1989, 4

But I guess we can dismiss him as speaking as a man there.

[_Yoda]

But I guess we can dismiss him as speaking as a man there.

LOL!

Nice volley there, my friend!

;)

[_Jason Bourne]

was just talking with my sister about the bias she experiences in her work place. Our discussion veered off into the varying ways Mormonism panders to male vanity and I wanted to introduce a post on that topic. I previously wrote the following and posted it on RfM and thought I'd post it again here. No need to reinvent the wheel. :) I want to emphasize that not all Mormon men view women as their inferiors, but the doctrine certainly gives them an excuse to do so, and some take advantage of that. I knew many good Mormon men, but I also knew many Mormon men who were, by all accounts, failures in the real world, but considered themselves something special due to their ward callings or (fake) priesthood. The following mini-essay describes them.

I think better said is abuse of the doctrine gives them the excuse to view women as their inferiors. And certainly at least for the past 10 years, most GA talks on this teach men to not treat women as inferiors. Mormon priesthood and lay clergy and callings also puts pressure on men to perform in the Church an can create a feeling of being less then best if the high end calling do not come to a man.

[I]Mormonism breeds it's own unique brand of misogyny. In a religion where the most simple, uneducated and puerile man who holds the Priesthood wields God-given power over the most capable, educated, and brilliant woman, a near total disregard for the talents and power of females is to expected. It is no shock in the church of Joseph Smith to find that often the most loathsome man feels superior to the most remarkable woman. Why wouldn't he? He has been taught from his youth to view women as weak, incapable and beneath him in every way - as objects who exist to serve men - bearing their children, cooking their meals, cleaning their houses - and aren't really fit for anything else.

Yes this can happen. Men get the priesthood, women don't. Boys at 12 get to pass the sacrament and bless it at 16 and are sustained in meetings for advancement in the priesthood. Girls are virtually ignored on this front. But I do not think a boy is taught that women are weak and beneath a boy. One of the listed purposes of the Aaronic priesthood is to teach young men proper respect for women.

Mormonism teaches men that they are in every sense the saviors of women. Weak women need to be rescued by men. Women cannot even GET INTO HEAVEN without being called forth in the resurrection by their husbands, who alone know their new names, though the wives never know their husbands' new names. You see, God deals with the men. Men deal with the women. All of these things give Mormon men, even the puniest, weakest, and most pathetic among them, a power trip they'd never get from the real world, which recognizes many of them as the sorry excuses for men they really are.

Nah it does not...at least not since 1880 or so. Well the new name yes, but not the other stuff.

Mormon produced misogyny is not only a disservice to women, but to men as well. Men as well as women are denied the pleasure of knowing how powerful, talented, and self-reliant women really operate. Men can rely on the fake authority of the Priesthood and dominating women to give them a sense of power, instead of becoming the truly self-confident men they would be by earning respect the hard way, treating women as equals, and making successes out of themselves in their professions.

I think in the real LDS wards of the world there are many confident and powerful woman who do quite well. You clearly do not know my wife or many of the women I go to church with. It is also amazing to me how strong and vocal the 19th century LDS women were, and how they pursued many things that were not the norm for their day, including the right to vote.

In the real world, men work hard to earn respect. In Mormonism, even shiftless men who've never done a hard day's work in their lives get respect by virtue of their false Priesthood. Women, though they may work hard, are intelligent and educated and strong and more capable than any man, will never have the privileges granted to the shiftless, jobless, weak willed male Priesthood holder

.

Not in the real world. Lazy shiftless priesthood holders are usually treated as lazy and shiftless.

If you're staying in the church, knowing it's a lie, in order to change it from the inside or appease your family, please think carefully about the teachings to which you're exposing your sons and daughters. Your sons are learning that women are inferior and your daughters are being carefully trained to meet those expectations.

No they are really not learning this when things are taught properly and also I can counter anything I think is harmful by what I teach them personally, like I taught my girls and still do one who is only 12 that they can be whatever they want and that they should get educated and pursue their dreams. I tell my youngest she should run for president someday because she has the gift of talking circles around about anyone and is just plain smart, my smartest of three other smart ones.