Raising up Seed... (sigh)

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_The Nehor
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Re: Raising up Seed... (sigh)

Post by _The Nehor »

Polygamy Porter wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
asbestosman wrote:I heard something about the "restitution/restoration of all things" (originally comes from Acts 3:21, but see D&C 86:10). The idea is that God had to restore some old principles in this time. I'm not sure I buy it though as I never heard of circumcision nor burnt offerings becoming mandatory again.


Just wait.
LOL

Perhaps then Nehor will finally get a woman when one is assigned to him!

Remember Neh, by then, you will take what they give you! Pray it is not a "sweet spirit".

If it works out for two years, they will assign another one to you..


Thanks for that but I've already got several girls who want me. None are 'sweet spirits'.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Polygamy Porter wrote:Well, he did in a round about way.

Adam had sex with Eve who gave birth to a daughter. When the daughter turned 12 or 14 then Adam had another wife.

Later when Eve's cast iron womb fell out and broke her toe, some of the later daughters would birth grand daughters to become his nth wife, then those bore great grand daughters and so on and so on and so on...

Adam probably had young virgins until the day he died or until his unit failed.


I hate to ask you for sources on this but I'm asking you for any source of any kind. I looked into it and the closest I got was the Jewish Story of Lillith.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Polygamy Porter
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Post by _Polygamy Porter »

The Nehor wrote:
Polygamy Porter wrote:Well, he did in a round about way.

Adam had sex with Eve who gave birth to a daughter. When the daughter turned 12 or 14 then Adam had another wife.

Later when Eve's cast iron womb fell out and broke her toe, some of the later daughters would birth grand daughters to become his nth wife, then those bore great grand daughters and so on and so on and so on...

Adam probably had young virgins until the day he died or until his unit failed.


I hate to ask you for sources on this but I'm asking you for any source of any kind. I looked into it and the closest I got was the Jewish Story of Lillith.
Likewise, show me any valid sources that prove Adam and Eve existed.
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Polygamy Porter wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
Polygamy Porter wrote:Well, he did in a round about way.

Adam had sex with Eve who gave birth to a daughter. When the daughter turned 12 or 14 then Adam had another wife.

Later when Eve's cast iron womb fell out and broke her toe, some of the later daughters would birth grand daughters to become his nth wife, then those bore great grand daughters and so on and so on and so on...

Adam probably had young virgins until the day he died or until his unit failed.


I hate to ask you for sources on this but I'm asking you for any source of any kind. I looked into it and the closest I got was the Jewish Story of Lillith.
Likewise, show me any valid sources that prove Adam and Eve existed.


I would show you the Old Testament but I'm betting you don't count that as valid. Would seeing Adam count? Probably not for you.

Well, in any case my theory has more basis than yours. I believe in possibly fictitious people. You seem to want to suppose details about these same possibly fictitious people's sex lives. You're on thinner ice ;)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

beastie wrote:
Damn!!! Ya just gotta love that part I bolded. She is sinful if she goes back to hubby number 1 but it is not sinful for her to run to Mr. I am better in the priesthood then you Brigham, nor for him to take her. WOW!!! Holy Crap!!!! What a BY was able to justify as sin and not sin is just friggin amazing!!!!


I think this was probably the justification they used with Zina Huntington. There is a second hand journal entry recording that when BY sent Henry on his mission (very sick, in the middle of winter, If I recall correctly) he told Henry to go find another wife, but make sure it was of his "own kind" (paraphrasing from memory). I always wondered what that meant. Given other statements of BY, I suspect he meant that Henry was on some lower level than BY and was "over-reaching" to marry Zina, who was clearly destined for bigger and better things.

Just found a FAIR article that discusses (and of course dismisses) the statement. Yet, given BY's other statements, I find it believable.


At a place called, by the Mormons, Pisgah, in Iowa, as they were passing through to Council Bluffs, Brigham Young spoke in this wise, in the hearing of hundreds: He said it was time for men who were walking in other men's shoes to step out of them. "Brother Jacobs," he says, "the woman you claim for a wife does not belong to you. She is the spiritual wife of brother Joseph, sealed up to him. I am his proxy, and she, in this behalf, with her children, are my property. You can go where you please, and get another, but be sure to get one of your own kindred spirit."


http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences ... r_Men.html


If BY really said it this way I find it deeply disturbing and rather Warren Jeffish. Maybe the RFLDS are the true successors of 19th century Mormonism.
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Jason Bourne wrote: Maybe the RFLDS are the true successors of 19th century Mormonism.


I've always thought this---not about one fundamentalist group in particular, but in terms of fundamentalist polygs in general.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_truth dancer
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Post by _truth dancer »

Hi Jason,

If BY really said it this way I find it deeply disturbing and rather Warren Jeffish. Maybe the RFLDS are the true successors of 19th century Mormonism.


I think the FLDS reflect the church Joseph Smith founded.

No question about it in my opinion.

Ever listen to FLDS members discuss their church? They are the ones who held to the teachings/doctrines/practices revealed to Joseph Smith by Jesus Christ. They are the ones who did not succumb to the government's pressure. The one true church.

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_huckelberry
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Post by _huckelberry »

I will mention that my general view of polygamy agrees with Truth Dancers. It is perhaps a bit of devils advocate urge but I am wondering if it makes any difference to consider othr possible meaning to the phrase raising up seed.

It seems possible that the phrase refers to the idea fo forming a cultural group that holds together like family. It may be a question of cohesiveness rather than numbers. Seem that way I find myself thinking whether I like it or not it worked quite well. Polygamy can represent which when accepted underlines that the Mormon is a member of a group which is seperate from all the other people in the nation. I do not know of any other religous group which has the idenity impact that Mormon has. If you are Mormon that is a deep part of your identity which being Methodist does not quite have.

Accept polygamy and you cross that river to being a people apart. Is that not what was intended? It could have produced fewer children in the short run but they were born inside a high fence.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

huckelberry wrote:Accept polygamy and you cross that river to being a people apart. Is that not what was intended? It could have produced fewer children in the short run but they were born inside a high fence.


Agreed on the outcome, although I think you stretch the interpretation that's been used since the beginning. Members who have polygamy in their family tree know the stigma and the sting attached to the word "Mormon" more than any convert ever will. Converts can claim they had nothing to do with it, and can at least put some distance between themselves and the abomination, claiming it happened long before they came on the scene. BIC have no such distance. That stigma reinforces the "us against them" that surrounds Mormon culture. We can't let it go and we sure can't kick it to the curb (as I definitely wish we would) because to do so negates the sacrifice made by all those ancestors of the staunch (re: tithe paying) BIC members who revere their pioneer ancestors.

People get all caught up in the hype surrounding the pioneers, and refuse to see what's in front of their faces: that our ancestors were duped, allowed themselves to be duped, embraced being duped, and took being duped to a whole new level. Were they to see Joseph as the lying adulterer he was puts their ancestors in the light of either really stupid or really crooked. No one wants to admit their ancestors were either.

Joseph needed a mechanism that solved two problems: his lust for women and his need to keep his followers in prophet-awe. Plural marriage solved both his problems. It was a slam-dunk to him: 1st, he gets to have multiple women in his bed and his wife can't complain, and 2nd, he involves all his closest friends on the down-low and they can't expose him without exposing themselves. The fly in the ointment was William Law, but Joseph thought he could ride rough-shod over him. That it backfired on him and led to his death was probably not in Joseph's plan when he ordered the destruction of the printing press.

So we're left with Joseph's excrement, the very human waste of his lust for women and power. On the one hand, we're abhorred and disgusted by the whole thing, and on the other, we want to honor and revere our ancestors and their sacrifice on our behalf (and on behalf of the nation... let us not forget that Brigham was a prime mover in opening the West). So we're conflicted. And our leaders are hamstrung. If they kick it to the curb (as I think some at least would), they admit that our ancestors were duped. If they keep it as it is now constituted, they are ridiculed by virtually everyone else and critics use it for ammunition, against which there is really no defense. No wonder they have so many splinters in their backsides; they're constantly shifting on that fence!

Interestingly enough, some of my Native friends are the ones least disgusted by it. They have it in their own ancestors, although they don't lie about nor do they claim it was a commandment from God.
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

That's the thing I have a problem with Harm. So many of my ancestors knew Joseph and/or Brigham very well. They spoke highly of them and not in the sense that LDS today think of President Hinckley. They knew them. They had private conversations with him. They don't seem like morons. I find it highly suspect that critics think they know him better than those he led and lived with.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
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