Jersey Girl wrote: Here's an instance where your lack of knowledge of ME, may hinder you from thinking objectively. New Flash: LDS don't hold the copyright to indoctrinating their children and the only way you'd be able to assess the "extent" to which they do so would mean you've experienced, witnessed or observed religious indoctrination of those from other religious groups. My essential message to you is take your "gee aren't we so special we were heavily indoctrinated and that must mean we're the most indoctrinated group on the planet" and bite me.
Wow... touchy. Is there a reason you're so sensitive about this?
Is there a reason that you chose to make personal remarks instead of dealing with the points I raised? If responding to one or two sentences in a lengthy post filled with examples and evaluation is the best you can do, I accept that.
What is my experience with LDS or their children? Do you know? If not, then you're simply blathering out nonsensical junk. The very moment that you chose to shift focus to the person making the comments instead of replying to the actualy comments, tells me that you're ill equipped to deal with content.
It's not sensitivity, Schmo. It's pure disgust that some folks aren't able to deal. In other words, it's a complete waste of time.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
I'm hopping all over the existing thread. PAS...parent alienation syndrome? If that is what you meant, I agree, it's a type of brainwashing.
Yep, that's precisely what I was talking about and supplied a link. I'm pretty familiar with the condition and try to stay abreast of the latest.
I wasn't saying children are brainwashed by the Church. I was merely responding to a poster that said children could not be brainwashed. I thought I'd give a quick mention of PAS (all parents should be aware of the devastating consequences PAS can inflict upon their children) and be done with it.
Jersey Girl wrote:I think I want to, at this juncture, throw a wrench into this meeting of the minds. And Liz, if you disagree with anything I say here, please clarify your position and observations.
As we speak, live and breath, the very first generations of children who were raised up in full time institutions and those who were raised as chemically dependent persons (I'm talking drugs without the corresponding CBT) are now entering the work force and educational institutions.
Liz and I, teach them in our classrooms. Some are healthy and whole in every possible way while a great many seem to be lost insofar as having a sound foundation of values from which to draw on in their every day interactions as well as forthright ways of meeting their personal goals. I have not witnessed so many young adults who lacked a sense of their own self, self worth, self image, a sense of direction and a genuine appreciation for human kind as I do right now.
I applaud ANY parent who instills values in their children as part of their early learning, including general religious principles of honesty, self worth, valuing others, altruism, and loving others no matter what religious entity or figure they take their cues from. LDS parents and others who invest their time and efforts in guiding their children toward the instilling of values are to be held in high regard.
If you want to take a poke at LDS or other religious types, you need to be taking your shots at the adults who fail to exercise criticial thinking, not how people are raising their children. Every parent with or without religious ties, transmits values to their children from day one. Whether or not those values are upright or corrupting, depends on the core of the parent who is transmitting them.
I'm hopping all over the existing thread. PAS...parent alienation syndrome? If that is what you meant, I agree, it's a type of brainwashing.
Yep, that's precisely what I was talking about and supplied a link. I'm pretty familiar with the condition and try to stay abreast of the latest.
I wasn't saying children are brainwashed by the Church. I was merely responding to a poster that said children could not be brainwashed. I thought I'd give a quick mention of PAS (all parents should be aware of the devastating consequences PAS can inflict upon their children) and be done with it.
It seems to me that from what I've read that PAS is actionable in court. I don't think that religious indoctrination would be considered as similiar unless it placed children at risk for abuse and neglect. As I said, I hopped all over the thread so hope that my comments are at least somewhat applicable to what you were trying to forward.
People in those cases of PAS don't fully understand the potential impact of divorce alone on a child. I describe it this way...
The parents are the child foundation, the center of the universe, the solid core. When divorce happens (depending on how it is handled) it is the same thing as if a child opened the door to their house only to see that the ground had disappeared. In the case of PAS, not only has the ground disappeared but the child is made to think/believe that the piece of ground that constituted the one parent....was poison.
What does that do to the child's concept of the world, relationships and self?
Without intervention...skews it for life.
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
I'm hopping all over the existing thread. PAS...parent alienation syndrome? If that is what you meant, I agree, it's a type of brainwashing.
Yep, that's precisely what I was talking about and supplied a link. I'm pretty familiar with the condition and try to stay abreast of the latest.
I wasn't saying children are brainwashed by the Church. I was merely responding to a poster that said children could not be brainwashed. I thought I'd give a quick mention of PAS (all parents should be aware of the devastating consequences PAS can inflict upon their children) and be done with it.
It seems to me that from what I've read that PAS is actionable in court. I don't think that religious indoctrination would be considered as similiar unless it placed children at risk for abuse and neglect. As I said, I hopped all over the thread so hope that my comments are at least somewhat applicable to what you were trying to forwards.
Jersey, I agree. Like I said, I was making no parallel between PAS and the Church. I was merely replying to a poster that said it was impossible for children to be brainwashed. They can. So I responded.
Jersey, I agree. Like I said, I was making no parallel between PAS and the Church. I was merely replying to a poster that said it was impossible for children to be brainwashed. They can. So I responded.
Gotcha. I admire the work that you do, monkeys. I haven't run across a solid case of PAS and hope that I never do. I'm wondering if we should think of the brain washing attached to PAS as forced re-organizing of schema? That's scary beyond belief.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Jersey, I agree. Like I said, I was making no parallel between PAS and the Church. I was merely replying to a poster that said it was impossible for children to be brainwashed. They can. So I responded.
Gotcha. I admire the work that you do, monkeys. I haven't run across a solid case of PAS and hope that I never do. I'm wondering if we should think of the brain washing attached to PAS as forced re-organizing of schema? That's scary beyond belief.
I think that's precisely what it is! Of course I would have never thought to phrase it in that way.
Jersey, I agree. Like I said, I was making no parallel between PAS and the Church. I was merely replying to a poster that said it was impossible for children to be brainwashed. They can. So I responded.
Gotcha. I admire the work that you do, monkeys. I haven't run across a solid case of PAS and hope that I never do. I'm wondering if we should think of the brain washing attached to PAS as forced re-organizing of schema? That's scary beyond belief.
I think that's precisely what it is! Of course I would have never thought to phrase it in that way.
Anyone with some education in child development would realize how freakin' scary that is and what impact it would have on personality development as well as the society in which the child grown to adulthood is emerging. Makes me sick inside to think about it. When you think about it long enough, it is not unlike the children who are being raised in an environment of war. Actually...it's the same thing.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Jersey, I agree. Like I said, I was making no parallel between PAS and the Church. I was merely replying to a poster that said it was impossible for children to be brainwashed. They can. So I responded.
Gotcha. I admire the work that you do, monkeys. I haven't run across a solid case of PAS and hope that I never do. I'm wondering if we should think of the brain washing attached to PAS as forced re-organizing of schema? That's scary beyond belief.
I think that's precisely what it is! Of course I would have never thought to phrase it in that way.
Anyone with some education in child development would realize how freakin' scary that is and what impact it would have on personality development as well as the society in which the child grown to adulthood is emerging. Makes me sick inside to think about it. When you think about it long enough, it is not unlike the children who are being raised in an environment of war. Actually...it's the same thing.
I know that I have been reading about PAS (my step-son was systematically alienated from his father) before I took any early education courses and understood then what a horrific thing it was to do to a child. Now, I have a better grasp of what a toil it takes on a young mind.
And of course it carries over through out their life. Although sometimes adult children can realize that they were alienated from one parent and then turn against the alienator.
Jersey Girl wrote: Here's an instance where your lack of knowledge of ME, may hinder you from thinking objectively. New Flash: LDS don't hold the copyright to indoctrinating their children and the only way you'd be able to assess the "extent" to which they do so would mean you've experienced, witnessed or observed religious indoctrination of those from other religious groups. My essential message to you is take your "gee aren't we so special we were heavily indoctrinated and that must mean we're the most indoctrinated group on the planet" and bite me.
Wow... touchy. Is there a reason you're so sensitive about this?
Is there a reason that you chose to make personal remarks instead of dealing with the points I raised? If responding to one or two sentences in a lengthy post filled with examples and evaluation is the best you can do, I accept that.
What is my experience with LDS or their children? Do you know? If not, then you're simply blathering out nonsensical junk. The very moment that you chose to shift focus to the person making the comments instead of replying to the actualy comments, tells me that you're ill equipped to deal with content.
It's not sensitivity, Schmo. It's pure disgust that some folks aren't able to deal. In other words, it's a complete waste of time.
LOL... alrighty then.
So let me get this straight. You accuse people of needing to "get a grip." I suggested you "may" (as in "could" "maybe" "perhaps") not fully understand what people mean because you hadn't been there yourself, and somehow that became a personal attack. Then you get all snippy with me, telling me to bite you (I would, but I don't think I'd like the taste; you seem rather bitter), but apparently, none of this matters because I can't "deal" with the points you raised.
Why would I bother to deal with your points when you appear to be completely irrational about the subject? You made it personal, not me.
Maybe I will "deal" with whatever points you make when you decide the stick you got firmly rammed up your ass gets too uncomfortable and you decide to remove it. You are getting from me exactly what you're giving out.
Entertaining though. I'll give you that.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.