FARMS and the Invention of Evidence

[_beastie]

You miss the point, SS. Scratch One says himself that he's not interested in the horse issue. (He's already decided that one, at least to his satisfaction.) He's interested in the names and assignments of personnel at the Maxwell Institute. For all I know, he'd probably like the routes their children take to and from school, as well.

It's really quite bizarre.

Straw man alert! I'm not scratch, but I can reasonably guess that he's not interested in debating whether or not the horse existed in ancient Mesoamerica because he (like the vast majority of legitimate Mesoamerican scholars) realizes this isn't even a debatable issue - there is zero evidence of the horse in ancient Mesoamerica during the Book of Mormon time period. But I think he IS interested in the horse issue in that it represents something else - the willingness of some apologists to allow fallacious information to stand, despite, at times, even knowing the information is fallacious having been alerted by others.

[_Mercury]

Don't you people know anything?

Horse == Tapir

[_beastie]

Fortunately, the LDS church does not do this.

snort!

[_Mercury]

Yes, heaven forbid FARMS should actually have to back up what they say, Scratch! Don't be ridiculous!

You miss the point, SS. Scratch One says himself that he's not interested in the horse issue. (He's already decided that one, at least to his satisfaction.) He's interested in the names and assignments of personnel at the Maxwell Institute. For all I know, he'd probably like the routes their children take to and from school, as well.

It's really quite bizarre.

Dan???

Are you accusing Scratch of being a child molester?

Dude, you need help. You just posted something that might bite you in the ass buddy.

Either that, or you can't take the pressure that Scratch has you under... like a cornered cat lashing out...

Would the FARMS staff approve of your remarks here?

I think he was alluding more to his children being kidnapped by DB's perpetrator, someone who is simply looking into an accredited institution employing doctorate level employees in order to further the agenda of a religion. Heavens NO! Oh Lawdy! What would be wrong with that?

Dan, what would give you the idea that stalking and criminal behavior came into play?

[_Phaedrus Ut]

The original source of the information was John L. Sorenson's An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon(1985, p.297)

In its light, the radiocarbon date around 100 B.C. of horse, mammoth and mastodon remains at St. Petersburg, Florida, does not seem impossible [Jim J. Hester, "Agency of Man in Animal Extinction," in Martin and Wright, "Pleistocene Extinctions," p. 185

The 100 B.C. horse evidence has been often been repeated by those quoting Sorenson. Most notably Jeff Lindsey on his website. In his citations for Mastadons and horses Sorenson quotes Paul Martin and Jim Hesters published accounts from 1958 and 1960 respectively.

So 46 years ago mammoth remains along with horse remains were incorrectly dated to 100BC . The original publishing authors in later years recognized the errors of these finds and wrote about it. See Mammoth Extinctions

Not since the early years of 14C dating, when laboratory protocols for sample selection and pretreatment were not standardized or well understood by consumers of dates (see, e.g., Martin 1958 and Hester 1960), has anyone seriously advanced the thought that mammoths or mastodons survived into the mid-Holocene. Those North American Holocene dates of yore were not replicated and could not be supported stratigraphically and geochemically. They moulder in the graveyard of unverified measurements.

Dr. Peterson wrote about the Florida teeth issue here Farms link Apparently Stan Larson was critical of Sorenson using this source.

Phaedrus

[_cksalmon]

I emailed the Maxwell Institute re: the controversial item in the OP's Q&A.

I received the following reply:

"Unfortunately, the validating evidence was contained in a letter from F. Michael Watson to William Hamblin. That letter seems to have been misplaced."

CKS















PS. Okay, not really. I did email the Institute, but I haven't received a reply yet.

[_Who Knows]

CKS - heehee - you had me going. Good one.

[_asbestosman]

I personally have no desire to help you with your already bulging files and "dossiers" on various people. The whole enterprise seems exceedingly weird to me, and I know from abundant personal experience that it's not well-intentioned.

At least I can get a kick out being considered a dangerous hacker (I'm a white hat hacker with occasional dips into blue-hat stuff).

Scratch's IP address is 127.0.0.1
Wait, that's my IP address.
Or is it 192.168.0.40 ?

(stupid geek joke)

[_beastie]

Phaedrus,

Thanks for that link. I remember reading that article last year, but forgot to save the link and could never find it again. It's a great article that explains why the "evidence" that apologists find for these anachronistic items tend to come from very old sources.

[_beastie]

I emailed the Maxwell Institute re: the controversial item in the OP's Q&A.

My prediction: if you receive an answer, it will dismiss the problem as a "tempest in a teapot" and insist there is plenty of other supporting evidence besides. :O