Is Mormonism a cult?

[_KimberlyAnn]

Well, that's just exactly why I dislike the word. There's no generally accepted definition for what constitutes a cult, and the ones given in the thread are broad enough to apply to just about every religion. Again, what's the point? It's merely to say, "I think your religion sucks."

Actually, that's the thing: it's not to indicate what I think of Mormonism in particular. I do consider all religions to have at least an element of "cultishness." I don't think people should belong to any religion really. I only talk about Mormonism because it's the religion with which I'm most familiar.

I don't think the question should be "is the Mormon church a cult?" The question should be "just how much of a cult is it?" or "to what degree is it a cult?" or even "how dangerous a cult is it?" Those would be much more useful questions, in my opinion.

Also, it's important, in my opinion, to let non-Mormons know that Mormonism isn't what it claims to be. That it is, indeed, a cult, and has good reason to be avoided. I hate to see uninformed people being suckered into Mormonism. It is a cult, as you say, Schmo. The best question is - "How dangerous is it?". We all have differing opinions on that.

KA

[_Runtu]

Well, that's just exactly why I dislike the word. There's no generally accepted definition for what constitutes a cult, and the ones given in the thread are broad enough to apply to just about every religion. Again, what's the point? It's merely to say, "I think your religion sucks."

Actually, that's the thing: it's not to indicate what I think of Mormonism in particular. I do consider all religions to have at least an element of "cultishness." I don't think people should belong to any religion really. I only talk about Mormonism because it's the religion with which I'm most familiar.

I don't think the question should be "is the Mormon church a cult?" The question should be "just how much of a cult is it?" or "to what degree is it a cult?" or even "how dangerous a cult is it?" Those would be much more useful questions, in my opinion.

I think the most important questions are "how dangerous is it?", "how manipulative is it?", or "how true is it?"

The word "cult" doesn't add much to the conversation. But it's just a quibble.

[_silentkid]

Well, that's just exactly why I dislike the word. There's no generally accepted definition for what constitutes a cult, and the ones given in the thread are broad enough to apply to just about every religion. Again, what's the point? It's merely to say, "I think your religion sucks."

I'm not sure that's the only reason. I think being able to identify a cult (based on specific characteristics) is useful for those who are helping ex-cultists deal with their paradigm shifts and to help those that may still be involved in dangerous cults. I think there are groups that fit the cult definition much better than mormonsim, but Mormonism does share some of those characteristics. I agree with KA when she stated that there seem to be varying degrees of cultishness and that mainstream Mormonism is probably somewhere in the middle. I'm no psychologist or sociologist, so I may be grasping at straws here.

[_Yoda]

Also, it's important, in my opinion, to let non-Mormons know that Mormonism isn't what it claims to be. That it is, indeed, a cult, and has good reason to be avoided. I hate to see uninformed people being suckered into Mormonism. It is a cult, as you say, Schmo. The best question is - "How dangerous is it?". We all have differing opinions on that.

KA

In what ways do you find Mormonism a dangerous cult?

I think we can agree that Mormonism is not dangerous in the sense that Jonestown was dangerous.

Actually, I think that the current LDS Church is fairly watered down and mirrors many other Christian sects, particularly since they made the temple changes in 1990.

I have actually been able to get away with doing my little calling on Sunday (playing the piano for Primary) and then going home and not thinking too much about it until the following week. The main thing I resent is the 3 hour time block.

The other activities which exist are more of a pick and choose nature based on your social needs/desires.

There is Mutual on Wednesday nights for the kids, but my girls never got a lot of guff if they missed due to conflicting school activities.

Here are some of the issues of the LDS Church I would like to see resolved:

I have a problem with past issues that the Church refuses to own up to, such as MMM. No, I don't believe that the Church is solely responsible for this tragedy. I think that the individuals were more at fault. That being said, however, I do think that the Church should take responsibility for the fact that the culture during that time created a hysteria which contributed to the murderers doing what they did.

I think that the Church should make a public apology regarding the Priesthood Ban, and that it should reinstate priesthood for women.

I would also like to see the Plural Marriage doctrine sufficiently addressed. In my opinion, if men can be sealed to more than one woman, then women should be able to sealed to more than one man.

I also don't think it's right to keep non-member parents from seeing their sons and daughters get married. This is just cruel.

OK...end of rant.

;)

[_wenglund]

Would those in favor of labelling the Church as a "cult" please explain what you see as the utility in doing so? In other words, what useful purpose do you think will be served by such name-calling?

Your answer may give indication whether there is value or not in quibbling over this issue.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Dearest Wade,
How about you go back, read the OP and subsequent definitions given for the word cult, and explain why you don't think those definitions are sufficient in describing Mormonism. Then, maybe you could explain why you think the word "cult" has a negative connotation. Shermer's definition of cult (which I posted previously in this thread) was used in his book to describe the followers of Ayn Rand, not Mormonism. Many posters in this thread have claimed that the Mormon church, today, is not a cult but could have been described as one at its inception. How do you feel about this assertion? Others have claimed that there are varying degrees of "cultness". How do you feel about this assertion?
Sincerely, silentkid

Unless you or others can explain the utility in labeling the Church as a cult, what would be the value in our quibbling endlessly over the semantics of the label (i.e which connotation of the term applies, and to what degree, and whether the label carries a negative connotation in the common venacular or not, etc.)?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Guest]

Unless you or others can explain the utility in labeling the Church as a cult, what would be the value in our quibbling endlessly over the semantics of the label (I.e which connotation of the term applies, and to what degree, and whether the label carries a negative connotation in the common venacular or not, etc.)?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Dearest Wade,

Thanks for evading the OP once again. I don't want to get into a childish, "I asked you first", argument with you. Thanks for participating.

Sincerely,

silentkid

Edited to add: See my previous post for a reason as to the utility of labeling something a cult.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Liz, first and foremost, I believe Joseph Smith was a liar. I do not believe Mormonism is "true" or even remotely correct. I believe devoting one's time to a group which claims to be the only true church on the planet, but really isn't, is a terrible waste. I believe all the good that can be found in Mormonism can be found in much less controlling environments.

I believe the oath of consecration in the temple is a sure marker of a controlling cult and do not think anyone should be subjected to such oath-making, especially when they're not forewarned of the oaths they will be taking! That's disingenuous to say the least.

The Mormon church is a misogynistic organization which treats women as celestial chattel.

The Mormon church is so controlling, it dictates what underwear it's members should wear, inquires as to whether or not they masturbate, schedules interviews to review their monetary contributions, tries to hide it's history...the list goes on and on and on!

But most of all, the Mormon church is a fraud and not in the least what it claims to be. Joseph Smith was no prophet, and neither were any of the men who followed him as Presidents of the Mormon church. It's all a sham. And I prefer people not be involved in a damaging, controlling, sham of a religion. A damaging cult, in my opinion.

I have a hundred other reasons I believe Mormonism to be damaging, but I don't have time at the moment to list them, and I'm not sure there would be a point to doing so. I think I've always been very clear on this board where I stand re: Mormonism.

KA

[_Runtu]

Liz, first and foremost, I believe Joseph Smith was a liar. I do not believe Mormonism is "true" or even remotely correct. I believe devoting one's time to a group which claims to be the only true church on the planet, but really isn't, is a terrible waste. I believe all the good that can be found in Mormonism can be found in much less controlling environments.

I believe the oath of consecration in the temple is a sure marker of a controlling cult and do not think anyone should be subjected to such oath-making, especially when they're not forewarned of the oaths they will be taking! That's disingenuous to say the least.

The Mormon church is a misogynistic organization which treats women as celestial chattel.

The Mormon church is so controlling, it dictates what underwear it's members should wear, inquires as to whether or not they masturbate, schedules interviews to review their monetary contributions, tries to hide it's history...the list goes on and on and on!

But most of all, the Mormon church is a fraud and not in the least what it claims to be. Joseph Smith was no prophet, and neither were any of the men who followed him as Presidents of the Mormon church. It's all a sham. And I prefer people not be involved in a damaging, controlling, sham of a religion. A damaging cult, in my opinion.

I have a hundred other reasons I believe Mormonism to be damaging, but I don't have time at the moment to list them, and I'm not sure there would be a point to doing so. I think I've always been very clear on this board where I stand re: Mormonism.

KA

Oddly enough, I completely agree with you. It's a harmful and destructive organization on many levels. That said, using the word "cult" generally ends a conversation instead of beginning one. I guess I'm looking at this with an eye toward talking toward church members about why I believe what I believe. If I use the word "cult," their defenses go up, and it's over.

On the other hand, if I use the word "cult" with someone who doesn't know about the church, they think of Jonestown and the Branch Davidians, and that is not a fair comparison.

I know a lot of you disagree with me, but I don't see the point in using a word that is so loaded.

[_asbestosman]

I think many wish to use the label "cult" because of the manipulation they have experienced. I've experienced manipulation in connection with the church too, but now I think it has more to do with Rocky Mountain culture than with the church proper.

[_wenglund]

Unless you or others can explain the utility in labeling the Church as a cult, what would be the value in our quibbling endlessly over the semantics of the label (I.e which connotation of the term applies, and to what degree, and whether the label carries a negative connotation in the common venacular or not, etc.)?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Dearest Wade,

Thanks for evading the OP once again.

Thanks for evading my rational reason for "evading" discussing the OP.

I don't want to get into a childish, "I asked you first", argument with you.

That is good since I haven't, nor do I wish to enter such an argument myself. My point wasn't about who asked first, but rather whether the questions being first asked warrant consideration. Until I am given reasonable cause to consider them, I won't. If you and the other questioners don't wish to make that case to me, I am fine with that, and will leave the discussion to those who do have cause to discuss the questions.

Sincerely,

silentkid

Edited to add: See my previous post for a reason as to the utility of labeling something a cult.

Are you referring to the post where you thought you might be "grasping at straws"? If so, I agree with your supposition about your grasping at straws. However, if you are inclined, perhaps you could explain how calling the Church a "cult" will somehow help former members with their so-called paradigm shift, as well as how the Church is "dangerous" and thus deserving of the "cult" label.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-