DCP's Joseph Smith?????s Doctrines and Early Christianity

[_guy sajer]

Fine with me. (It's not as if I really care.)

Of course, Professor Räisänen actually produced evidence and analysis. I tend to be more easily impressed by evidence and analysis than by bare assertions.

I'm peculiar that way.

I think we can agree that you're peculiar.

Given your continued belief in the Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon, one can conclude that it doesn't take much by way of credible evidence and analysis to sway you.

The problem with appeal to authority for Mormon apologists is that there's almost always a higher authority that Trump's them, something they'd learn if they ever grew the nads to submit their "evidence and analysis" for peer review.

[_Sethbag]

Professor Räisänen was impressed. You're not.

I'll try to remember that.

Great. Get all the mileage out of it that you can.

The Bible has some faults in it. A lot of people weren't looking for faults, and therefor didn't find them. Joseph Smith looked for faults, and found some. Ok. That's cool and all.

Does Professor Räisänen agree with what Joseph Smith did to "correct" the faults? If not, then you are only quoting him because he agreed that Joseph found faults at all, and does not agree with Joseph's interpretation or "correction" of the faults. So there's really no 3rd party support for what Joseph did in "correcting" the Bible, is there? The Räisänen paper is really just pointing out that Joseph Smith was able to find faults, which are certainly there, where others previously hadn't seen them, presumeably because they weren't even looking for them? Ok, great. What value does that really have? Certainly, any chance to point out that some 3rd party agrees in some way, however trivial, with some aspect of Mormonism cannot be ignored. Not when it will be so faith-promoting to the masses, right?

[_Sethbag]

Fine with me. (It's not as if I really care.)

Of course, Professor Räisänen actually produced evidence and analysis. I tend to be more easily impressed by evidence and analysis than by bare assertions.

I'm peculiar that way.

I'm curious how you respond to the whole Noah's Ark story. Mountains of evidence demonstrate that a global, worldwide flood as described in Genesis and supported in various other scriptures, Biblical and LDS-specific, did not occur at any time in the somewhat recent (geologically speaking) past. So, do you believe, as LDS prophets past and present have taught, in a literal, global flood, or are you impressed by the mountains of evidence demonstrating that it didn't actually happen?

Ok, so a non-LDS person says that Joseph Smith identified some faults with the Bible, when others before him hadn't. Well these faults undoubtedly occur, so it was just a matter of time before they were discovered. The question is, did it take a Prophet of God to point out these flaws? Or did it just take someone willing to approach the Bible with the idea that it contained inaccuracies, as opposed to the popular idea that the Bible was faultless? To be frank, if Joseph Smith was indeed the first to point out some flaws in the Bible, it's entirely possible that it was because he was the first to suppose that the Bible might actually contain some flaws at all, and go looking for them.

I'm way more interested in what Joseph Smith did with the flaws once he'd found them. And, as outlined in recent threads here and mentioned on MAD, I believe that Joseph Smith's interpretation of things to be in conflict with the conclusions of the documentary hypothesis, and that Joseph Smith was probably making up his "corrections" to the Bible as he went along, rather than restoring a document to some previous, true and correct state.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Fine with me. (It's not as if I really care.)

Of course, Professor Räisänen actually produced evidence and analysis. I tend to be more easily impressed by evidence and analysis than by bare assertions.

I'm peculiar that way.

I'm curious how you respond to the whole Noah's Ark story. Mountains of evidence demonstrate that a global, worldwide flood as described in Genesis and supported in various other scriptures, Biblical and LDS-specific, did not occur at any time in the somewhat recent (geologically speaking) past. So, do you believe, as LDS prophets past and present have taught, in a literal, global flood, or are you impressed by the mountains of evidence demonstrating that it didn't actually happen?

What, do you also deny the plausibility of the Tower of Babel and Jaredite submersibles? There is just no satisfying some folks!

[_Daniel Peterson]

Does Professor Räisänen agree with what Joseph Smith did to "correct" the faults?

Perhaps this comment, made just above, will help:

Räisänen did not agree with Joseph's proposed "solutions" to these "problems"

[_Daniel Peterson]

Oh lord.....too easy.

Not nearly as easy as you imagine, poor fellow.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Good grief, this place is boring!

[_Scottie]

Good grief, this place is boring!

We're sure gonna miss ya....* sniff *

[_Daniel Peterson]

Good grief, this place is boring!

We're sure gonna miss ya....* sniff *

Oh, don't get your hopes up. Though I don't stick around for the brilliant analysis, the hard-to-find evidence, or the startling insights, I do enjoy watching what agitates the hive and I do think it useful to announce things here from time to time. If for nothing else, I'll stay for that.

Despite Scratch One's increasingly shrill enmity and his and Scratch Two's demands that I leave, I don't intend to go altogether away. Sorry.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Good grief, this place is boring!

We're sure gonna miss ya....* sniff *

Oh, don't get your hopes up. Though I don't stick around for the brilliant analysis, the hard-to-find evidence, or the startling insights, I do enjoy watching what agitates the hive and I do think it useful to announce things here from time to time. If for nothing else, I'll stay for that.

Despite Scratch One's increasingly shrill enmity and his and Scratch Two's demands that I leave, I don't intend to go altogether away. Sorry.

I like having you around, even if you sometimes resemble a Mormon pull string doll. :)