guy sajer wrote:wenglund wrote:guy sajer wrote:wenglund wrote:And, sure, I could have walked down State Street, SLC, during lunch hour carrying a sign protesting the Danish cartoon thing. But, I am not sure how many Muslim extremist I would be reach, nor do I believe it would have but a microscopic fraction of the impact that broadcasting, via Al Jazeer and the internet, the mortal violation of my civil rights by terrorists. Do you?
Depends; if there's thousands of protestors like yourself, then it could have a tremendous impact.
A microscopic fraction of a microscopic fraction vs. a microscopic faction; it's a microscopic fraction in either case.
You may choose to die to make a point that few people will get (probably as many people would think you foolish as think you heroic), but I see virtue in living to fight another day without making hollow and rather ineffective grand gestures.
But, as you say, to each their own.
I suppose if I were to wildly over estimate the coverage and impact I may have as a single protestor (even among imagined thousands here in SLC) of a relatively meaningless cartoon in a foriegn newspaper that I heard about months after publication, and wildly under estimate the coverage and impact that my horrific death may have when likely broadcast on TV and cable networks and the internet world wide, then there is a chance I might see things your way. ;-)
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Wade, are you naturally this obtuse, or do you practice?
I suppose that to the narrow and closed minded, what I said may come across as "obtuse".
Please point out to me where I wildly overestimate the impact of a single protestor, such as yourself? Did I not explicitly state that it would depend on whether there were "thousands" of others like yourself?
The dispute, as I understood it, was about the possible coverage and impact that I personally may generate either through me protesting a Danish cartoon or choosing to be killed rather than converting to Islam. You initially equated the impact of the two, and when you realized how asinine that comparison was, you later tossed in some imagined thousands of other protestors (as if those other protestors had anything to do with my personal impact--they don't).
Please also point out to me how the horrorific deaths that have already occured at the hands of Islamacists have produced the kind of widespread, popular revolt you seem to imagine your tragic, yet heroric death would cause?
I have no idea how wide-spread or how popular the revolt, if any, there would be were I to have made the choice as previously stated. I just reasonably figure that it would get considerably more coverage, and have a considerably greater impact, then were I to wave a sign in protest over a Danish cartoon.
You'd be talked about in the press for a while, become a folk hero to Mormons (I doubt the Fundies would adopt you as their own given that you belong to an apostate sect), and then quietly fade from public consciousness.
That is certainly possible. I would suspect, though, that such an extreme act would add clarity and impetus to the war on terror. Hypothetically, as a reporter, I would supposed that my death would have greater meaning to the media complex than perhaps the death of a soldier or civilian. I would be one of the media's own, and that, I would think, would curry more media attention and sympathy.
Also, I believe the circumstances would make more obvious what the terrorist action are ultimately about. My death wouldn't be because of some supposed justified hatred by Muslims towards the US. It wouldn't be about the infidel's occupying sacred Islamic ground. It wouldn't be because of the Arab/Isreali conflict. It wouldn't be because of oil. Rather, it would be about radical Muslims wishing to convert people to Islam at the threat of death. Many of us already understand that this is ultimately what is driving the terrorist efforts, but many throughout the world haven't a clue (due in part, I believe, to the effective propaganda efforts of the terrorist and their sympathizer in the media and governments and organizations throughout the world). I would think my death, under the specified conditions, would put a very fine point on the matter--more so than were I to capitulate and convert to Islam, as evidence by how little this point is being talked about in relation to the real-life experiences of the reporters.
Tell me, do you remember the name of any of the persons (aside from Daniel Pearl--and I excempt him, because there was recently a movie about him) who have died over the past 2 years at the hands of Islamic extremists? No fair to google.
I don't know their names, nor could I tell you the names of anyone who died in the twin towers or at the Pentagon or on flight 93. But, I do remember the various beheadings and what happened on 9/11, and I was significantly impacted be them all--as were numerous other people who may not be able to remember specific names either. In contrast, not only could I not give you a name of someone who supposedly protested the Danish cartoon, but I don't even know if any protests took place, and even if they did, I wouldn't have had much of an impact on me at all, and certainly no where close to the impact of the beheadings I am aware of. And, from what I observed from reading the blogousphere and listening to talk radio and watching the news, I am not alone in how I was comparatively impacted by these contrasting events. Perhaps it was different for you. Perhaps for you the impact of the alleged cartoon protestors was equal to the beheadings of US citizens at the hands of terrorists. If so, I would suggest your sense of proportion and perspective is considerably out of whack.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-