What is your best evidence for Joseph Smith sleeping with his wives?

[_asbestosman]

What other side are you referring to?

The apologist take on things--preferably more than just one take.

[_Scottie]

What other side are you referring to?

The apologist take on things--preferably more than just one take.

How do you ascertain if something is legit or not? Have the sources in question been refuted by the apologists?

[_asbestosman]

What other side are you referring to?

The apologist take on things--preferably more than just one take.

How do you ascertain if something is legit or not? Have the sources in question been refuted by the apologists?

I have no idea if they've been refuted yet. That's part of the story I need to see before accepting it.

[_Scottie]

Because I am not convinced that Joseph was coercive nor libelous. Why? Because I am not so convinced about the other sources yet. Perhaps they ar e legit. What would I say if so? I don't know yet, but I imagine that I should at least read the other side of the story before jumping to the conclusion that it must have been libel, coercion, and the like.

From this quote, it appears that you are saying this could possibly be a troubling issue for you, if you could only verify the sources. Am I reading this correctly?

If so, are you just avoiding doing the research for fear that you might actually verify that it happened the way it supposedly happened? That you might be faced with a difficult decision if it turns out to be true?

[_asbestosman]

Because I am not convinced that Joseph was coercive nor libelous. Why? Because I am not so convinced about the other sources yet. Perhaps they ar e legit. What would I say if so? I don't know yet, but I imagine that I should at least read the other side of the story before jumping to the conclusion that it must have been libel, coercion, and the like.

From this quote, it appears that you are saying this could possibly be a troubling issue for you, if you could only verify the sources. Am I reading this correctly?

If so, are you just avoiding doing the research for fear that you might actually verify that it happened the way it supposedly happened? That you might be faced with a difficult decision if it turns out to be true?

It's because I'm lazy. I may get around to looking at the issue more in depth, but I'm not particularly concerned about it. I think it unlikely to be significant for me in eiher direction. Hence my laziness on the issue.

[_Bryan Inks]

"Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked, that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this."
- Joseph Smith's close confidant and LDS Church First Councilor, William Law, Interview in Salt Lake Tribune, July 31, 1887

When Heber C. Kimball asked Sister Eliza R. Snow the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith, she replied, "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that."
- Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives.

[_harmony]

You'd have to convince me that it's reasonable that God would give Joseph such prolific gifts of prophecy, revelation, translation (Book of Abraham, Inspired Version, Book of Moses, etc.) throughout that time period, where simultaneously Joseph is telling some of the most self-serving, egregious whoppers imaginable, and betraying his own wife with sex with other women behind her back, behind the backs of the husbands of some of these women, etc.

It helps to remember that Joseph's only gift, the only thing he ever did as a prophet, was write the Book of Mormon. Nothing else he did was sanctioned by God. Everything else he did, he did as a man.

[_Sethbag]

Harmony, Joseph Smith is supposed to have received the Sealing Power in I think 1835 in the Kirtland Temple through a direct visitation. This a good couple of years after the incident with Fanny Alger and the attendant lies that went on there. Remember Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated in part because he accused Joseph of adultery with Fanny Alger, and the others in the church took offense at that. You'd think a proper defense, in the church "court of love" that excommunicated Oliver Cowdery, would have been to explain that Fanny was in fact sealed to Joseph (before the sealing power was restored) and that it wasn't adultery because they were married. But no, no such explanation was given; instead, Oliver was exed.

Also, Harmony, do you believe that the Book of Abraham is in fact proper scripture? So, did Joseph either translate it properly from Egyptian papyrus (that we evidently don't have anymore) or else receive it via revelation from God via his magic rock? What's your view on the Book of Abraham?

[_Inconceivable]

"Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked, that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this."
- Joseph Smith's close confidant and LDS Church First Councilor, William Law, Interview in Salt Lake Tribune, July 31, 1887

Thanks for the quote, Bryan,

Taking this in context, Joseph Smith was very free with his talk to William Law because I believe he supposed he could turn him. He was never free with anyone but those that he thought would accept it. If they did not, they were villified as quoted previous on this thread.

There is no public statement where Smith advocates or admits to plural marriage (or whatever you want to call it). On the contrary, he vehemently denied all ties to such practice. He also encouraged affidavits from others involved in his deviant sex doctrine to do the same (such as the signed statement refuting it by the entire relief society presidency - all of whom he was banging - including Emma. According to "Mormon Enigma", Even though Emma knew of her husband's extraculicular activities, she was not aware that her friends/counselors were servicing him).

William Law was excommunicated without being present in the church court that considered his case. He privately and later publicly rejected Joseph Smith's doctrine of Mormon adultery. He and his brother published the one and only issue of the Nauvoo Expositor - a newspaper that revealed his duplicity. For that, it was deemed by Smith (as mayor of Nauvoo) as "a public nuisance" and destroyed.

[_harmony]

Harmony, Joseph Smith is supposed to have received the Sealing Power in I think 1835 in the Kirtland Temple through a direct visitation. This a good couple of years after the incident with Fanny Alger and the attendant lies that went on there. Remember Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated in part because he accused Joseph of adultery with Fanny Alger, and the others in the church took offense at that. You'd think a proper defense, in the church "court of love" that excommunicated Oliver Cowdery, would have been to explain that Fanny was in fact sealed to Joseph (before the sealing power was restored) and that it wasn't adultery because they were married. But no, no such explanation was given; instead, Oliver was exed.

Also, Harmony, do you believe that the Book of Abraham is in fact proper scripture? So, did Joseph either translate it properly from Egyptian papyrus (that we evidently don't have anymore) or else receive it via revelation from God via his magic rock? What's your view on the Book of Abraham?

Seth, Joseph was "supposed" to have received many things after 1831, none of which are valid on their face. He couldn't even document when he "supposedly" received the higher priesthood, the most necessary revelation he would ever "supposedly" receive. I think Joseph winged it a lot, once he realized that his relationship with Fanny had destroyed his window to God. Very very few of his later revelations show any more of God's inspiration than the average mule driver has. I think he had it, and he lost it, and he hid the losing of it and eventually the losing of it got him killed.