Assuring a successful life journey

[_moksha]

Wade, thanks for a thought provoking thread.

In many ways, life's spiritual journey can have some parallels to a globe trekking trip (or even to the grocery store). As you say, on your spiritual journey it is imperative to determine the beliefs that will aid and guide you on your journey I like your consideration of a route and mode of transportation. For myself, I have preferred the watercourse way whenever possible, giving only slight nudges when I have hit an embankment or gotten snagged by an impediment. I keep telling myself that the grass being greener on the far embankment is only illusory. Anyway, I know that the river will eventually lead to the Sea of Humanity. Hopefully there Jesus will see we are drowning.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Inconceivable,

I like your itinerary the best. Seems like the safest, scenic and most peaceful road to travel. Not just what you've mentioned in this post, but what you countenance on all the others.

:-)

Well, my personal journey is obviously not for everyone, but for me, it is certainly the way that brings peace to my mind and heart.

The struggle, strain, and craziness I felt trying to believe things that did not seem or feel true/right/holy, have left my soul and I feel a new sense of vitality, joy, and stillness.

This peace confirms to me that the journey is right for me.

Warmest wishes,

~dancer~

[_wenglund]

If the LDS church is true, then it's not only a viable path, it's the only path.

However, if it's not true, then that opens a whole range of possibilities. Is there a god? Is there a 'true' religion? Does religion matter to god? etc.

So the answer to your questions depends on what the 'destination' is. And since no one knows, it comes down to personal choice (what works for each person individually).

This is important. I've come to believe that the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" is fantasy, and is no more true than, say, the Star Wars epic, or Lord of the Rings. I honestly believe that there is no Jesus Christ up in a Celestial Kingdom that actually exists, who died so that something called "justice" could be satisfied, who is a God, and who is going to return to Earth someday, and rule it for 1000 years, at the end of which a giant war is going to take place, and then a creature named Satan, who is really our spirit brother but has now become our universal bogeyman, will be cast into a place called "outer darkness", while the rest of the human family takes their places in one of three kingdoms of eternal glory (except those who join Satan in OD), with the best and the most "worthy" of them become Gods, and living in eternal harems, procreating spirit children forever and ever, amen.

That's all just fantasy. It's unreal. The places don't exist, the bogeyman doesn't exist, the Savior doesn't exist, and nobody on Earth is ever going to die and go to a Celestial Kingdom and procreate spirit babies forever and ever. It's a destination which doesn't actually exist, and those whose life's journey revolves around trying to get there, will never do so. That's not to say that their lives will be wasted, or that they will be unhappy, but simply that they will never get what they think they will get. Their way is probably better than some of the other possible journeys to non-existent destinations that people in this world imagine they're striving for, and probably worse than some others.

Dawkins quoted one of the co-discoverers of DNA (forget if it was Watson or Crick) who, when asked by someone "what are we all for?" answered, with exasperation, that he didn't think we're for anything, but that he still planned on having a good lunch. We have this life, and there may not be any reason for it, but that shouldn't stop us all from coming up with our own reasons, and doing the best we can to make it all "worth it" for us and those around us.

Okay, so for you, like others, the restored gospel of Christ no longer privides answers for the planning and implementation of your life's journey. So, what does (if anything)? And, what answers have you come up with?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

Okay, so for you, like others, the restored gospel of Christ no longer privides answers for the planning and implementation of your life's journey. So, what does (if anything)? And, what answers have you come up with?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

For me, honesty, integrity, and love are my guiding principles.

[_wenglund]

Just out of curiousity, how do you, as an unbeliever, now answer each of the planning and implementation questions?

Well, it's all very fluid (since some of the answers are unknown or unknowable), but in essence, it all comes down to happiness. Happiness is the goal. Answer each of those questions with that in mind, and you'll have an idea.

I agree with you about the ultimate goal being happiness--at least that is, in part, how I answer the first question. I also like what Runtu said about seeking "truth", though I see "truth" more as a means to the ultimate goal of happiness rather than an ultimate goal, itself.

However, I am curious which answers you now deem unknown or unknowable?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Who Knows]

I agree with you about the ultimate goal being happiness--at least that is, in part, how I answer the first question. I also like what Runtu said about seeking "truth", though I see "truth" more as a means to the ultimate goal of happiness rather than an ultimate goal, itself.

However, I am curious which answers you now deem unknown or unknowable?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Anything dealing with any sort of purpose after this life, life after death, god, etc.

[Gadianton]

Weng,

I can't possibly imagine you are looking for an exit strategy or searching for an alternate flightplan. What gives.

I don't view this topic in one way (i.e. in terms of an "exit strategy"), nor do I think of it as just about me. Rather, I believe there may be shared value in looking at these general precepts and life strategies from a number of points of view.

My point of the OZ and Twin Towers analogy is this: Some of us have discovered that Mormonism is vaporware. We just happen to be ahead of you in that assesment. I'm quite lost for now, betrayed and forsaken by a wicked travel agent. It will take some time to get my balance back and take the planning into my own hands. No doubt, it's just a matter of time when you will have your own deer in the headlights moment as well.

I suppose it is possible that you may be ahead of me, just as it is possible that you may have unwittingly fallen behind. But, whatever the case may be, what I am driving at is that getting lost is not necessary in consequence of unbelief. One can avoid being a deer in the headlight through effectual re-planning and implementation. While unbelief may negate certain existing answers to the planning and implementation questions, it doesn't prevent one from coming up with other answers. In fact,, so as not to get lost, wisdom would suggest that one find answers to those questions before negating the previous answers, or better yet come up with better answers as a means of negating the previous answers.

In other words, if, in the very unlikely chance that I may one day view the restored gospel of Christ as "vaporware" (the current strength of my faith and confidence therein, particularly in light of the great extent to which it has been tested, makes this hightly unlikely) it would be because I would have found a better and more viable epistemology for answering the questions, and better answers to the questions. In other words, it would be a function of change, for the better, in epistemology, rather than merely through lose of belief in my current epistemology.

Does that give?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I agree with you about the ultimate goal being happiness--at least that is, in part, how I answer the first question. I also like what Runtu said about seeking "truth", though I see "truth" more as a means to the ultimate goal of happiness rather than an ultimate goal, itself.

However, I am curious which answers you now deem unknown or unknowable?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Anything dealing with any sort of purpose after this life, life after death, god, etc.

That makes sense.

However, if you look at the questions just in terms of mortality, then you should be able to answer all the questions. Right?

And, if so, how do you now answer each of them?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_truth dancer]

Hi Wade...

I understand your point but I see it a bit differently. :-)

I think often, we as humans find ourselves in situations where we must find a new way. (I actually think this is true of all of life and how species originate but that is another topic... smile)!

Say, if one gets fired from a job, they may be in a state of crisis for a time until they find a new one. (It may be easier to have had a nice job all lined up but some would suggest the search creates new opportunities that they would not have thought of).

Or, if someone moves to a new area of the country, it may take a while to find various support services. (Again, it may be nice to have all the ducks in a row before moving but it seems typical to take some time to get things organized).

Let's say a student had a particular degree in mind but after a year or two realized it was not for her, it may take some time to figure out what is the right major.

And, with religion, for those who discover their faith tradition is not working for them, or it is not true, or there are some sort of problems, I think one can let go of the belief and take some time to figure out what is more healthy or true or whatever.

I'm not suggesting one way is better than another only that normal life seems to allow for us to find our way out of chaos. We often grow from the disorder. The challenge and the process may be important for the discovery.

~dancer~

[_wenglund]

Hi Wade... :-)

Do you agree that this is a viable way to help assure a successful life journey?

I think it may be for some, for others, no. ~dancer~

For those that it doesn't help assure a successful life journey, are there other viable ways that do help? And, if so, what are they, and how do they work?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-