Profound insights from MAD on Gay Marriage

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_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Hmm... so the only compelling reason to marry is the possibility of raising children? How am I misreading your statement. That suggests to me that couples that do not want to raise children (or other possibilities that may factor into not being able to have children) don't have a compelling reason to marry.

You tell me how I misread what you wrote.


Consider the difference between your first statement and your latest one......

So couples that can't have children should just divorce or not bother being married?


That suggests to me that couples that do not want to raise children (or other possibilities that may factor into not being able to have children) don't have a compelling reason to marry.


Now do you see it?

The answer to your latest statement is a two parter. No (compelling reason) to the first and yes to the second (because of the possibility).
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Well, some of the things you said in your long post are ridiculous.


Most of that long thread is comprised of scientific references.

Just because homosexuality has a high incidence of these things ("high" being used liberally here), why should all people of that demographic group be prejudged to do them?


When did I say they should? My point is merely that it's a very dangerous and destructive lifestyle choice and therefore not subject to legitimization in law nor a compelling reason to marry.

Statistically, Hispanics and African-Americans have a much higher probability of committing violent crimes. Should you assume that they will? Are Hispanics and African-Americans intrinsically programed to be bad? I don't think so. Perhaps we should judge each individual on their character, not on their demographic group.


Since homosexuality is not genetic, you have made a serious error in correlation.

I am a homosexual, but I love children--I couldn't ever imagine hurting one. I could never hit anyone, no less someone that I loved. I don't have AIDS, and I won't do anything in which I could get it. I would never do things that would hurt my body. I very much disagree with anal sex, for instance: it's just unhealthy; of course putting the Q-tip in your inner ear is too, but not because of some natural moral decree, just because it is.


So what? I am heterosexual.

If I were to have a relationship with another man (especially a sexual one), I would sure like to enjoy the permenence of a marital commitment....but hey, you don't have to listen to me; apparently you've already judged what kind of person I probably am.


No law is preventing you from marrying. Go draw up a certificate, walk down an aisle, or bathe in a river or something. Just don't expect legal benefits or protections because there is no compelling reason.
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

But, like I said, are you in favor of socialized medicine?

short answer: yes.

long answer: abstract "access" and real, actual, material access are two very different things.


Indeed. But the promise of material access in socialized medicine is an abstraction, a fantasy. You'd think that after nearly century of examples people would learn that.
_Zoidberg
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Post by _Zoidberg »

bcspace wrote: My point is merely that it's a very dangerous and destructive lifestyle choice and therefore not subject to legitimization in law nor a compelling reason to marry.


And it surely couldn't be that this lifestyle is dangerous and destructive because our society is full of bigots who are willing to physically exterminate homosexual people and/or discriminate against them in just about every area of life? There are plenty of health benefits derived from being lesbian, such as lower risk of STDs and cervical cancer compared to heterosexual women. So it's actually more destructive for women to have sex with men than to have sex with women.
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

bcspace wrote:
Hmm... so the only compelling reason to marry is the possibility of raising children? How am I misreading your statement. That suggests to me that couples that do not want to raise children (or other possibilities that may factor into not being able to have children) don't have a compelling reason to marry.

You tell me how I misread what you wrote.


Consider the difference between your first statement and your latest one......

So couples that can't have children should just divorce or not bother being married?


That suggests to me that couples that do not want to raise children (or other possibilities that may factor into not being able to have children) don't have a compelling reason to marry.


Now do you see it?

The answer to your latest statement is a two parter. No (compelling reason) to the first and yes to the second (because of the possibility).



I see that you wrote this:

The possibility of raising children is the only compelling reason to marry.

I understand that your statement suggests that the only compelling reason that heterosexual couples marry is to raise children. That seems rather absurd to me!

Again, how precisely did I misread you?

Are you not aware that there are plenty of people that marry (THE ELDERLY? STERILE?) that have no possibility of having children?

You believe they have no compelling reason to marry outside of the possibility of raising children together?
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

dangit. This is why I should be sleeping at 3 am. Shoot!
_Ren
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Post by _Ren »

bcspace wrote:Many gay lovers, bowing to the inevitable, agree to an ‘open relationship,’ for which there are as many sets of ground rules as there are couples.

Many. Or 'some'.
'Many' hetrosexual couples also agree to 'open' relationships.

Heterosexuals, it seems, simply do not know how to pick up total strangers in the street and have uncomplicated animal sex with them.

A rediculous, absurd statement. Not made by you, but you decided it wise to quote it.
Hetrosexuals are more than capable of doing the above.
If you don't know this, then you are living under a rock.

As Australian government statistics have made quite plain, it is homosexual activity which accounts for the majority of HIV cases. More specifically, 94% of people known to be HIV positive are men, and at least 85% of cases of AIDS in Australia are attributed to male homosexual or bisexual contact.

More spin. Thankfully, I can read.
In the first sentence, the term 'homosexuality' is used, with no qualifiers.
In the second sentance, the first statistic mentioned isn't about homosexuality at all.

...it's about MEN.
94% of all HIV positives are MEN.

Then, the second statistic is attributed to homosexual / bi-sexual males.
Again, the common factor not being the word 'homosexual', but the word 'male'.

Homosexual males are - of course - going to be the most promiscous sub-group. That is because MALES are more promiscous, and a homsoexual male relationship consists of two males.

Again - the common factor in promiscuity is MALES. Not homosexuality.
THAT's why you, and your fellow bigots, only ever want to talk about male homosexuality.

Well, some of you recognise the problem. Which is why Cameron tried to take a ludicrous dig at Lesbians too:

Homosexuals more frequently met a violent end from accidental death, traffic death, suicide, and murder than men in general. The 163 lesbians registered a median age of death of forty-four (20% died old) and exhibited high rates of violent death and cancer as compared to women in general.

So Lesbians are more likely to meet an 'accidental' death?! Traffic death?! (Lesbians don't' have enough sense to look both ways?!) More likely to get 'cancer'?! Are more likely to get 'murdered'?!

I think you may want to provide the actual DATA that backs these ludicrous assertions up bcspace, rather than relying on some 'summary' to inform you.
You'll believe just about anything, it if tells you what you want to hear. This is some of the worst nonsense I've ever seen...

Oh wait - no, I've seen worse. In fact, it's just coming up...

Paul Cameron has demonstrated a disproportionality between homosexuals and the rape and murder of children....

You're still pedelling this same trash I see. Nice.
What part of 'most pedophiles don't care about the sex of the child' and 'most pedophiles are male' don't you understand exactly?
Pedophiles are most often 'asexual'. The 'sex' of the child is irrelavent. They find the bodies of children attractive. Not 'male' children, or 'female' children. Just children. The differences in the bodies of boys and girls at those young ages are far less defined, far less previlent, and not the underlying 'attraction' to most pedophiles.

Until you understand this, you won't understand the subject matter.
But of course, it's not your priority to understand anything.

The most recent twin study (2002), by Bearman and Bruckner, examines for the first time a large, representative sample of twins – both identical and fraternal – for sexual desire. They conclude that no evidence that homosexual desire is inherited: “the pattern of concordance (similarity across pairs) of same sex preference for sibling pairs does not suggest genetic influence independent of social context.”

Genetic does not equal inborn.
Modern studies show direct links between homosexuality and conditions in the womb. That's got very little to do with genetics.

You're behind the research.
And if you were actually intersted in understanding the subject matter, you would know better...
People who are in any kind of homosexual relationship are far more prone to domestic violence with their partners.

...Male homsexual relationships could be shown to have a higher rate of violence than a hetrosexual average, because both partners are male - and therefore both partners are more prone to violence.

The real 'myth' about lesbian relationships is that:

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbian ... yths_2.htm
"Lesbian relationships can’t have domestic violence, because they are both women."

Yet again, the word of importance here is male. Not homosexual.

Do all the studies you referenced demonstrate that Lesbians have a WORSE domestic violence than the average hetrosexual couple? Or do they show that domestic violence does indeed exist within many lesbian relationships - to any kind of worrying degree? (Of course ANY and ALL domestic violence deserves the title 'worrying'...)

I'll look forward to your clarifications.

There is much much more including drug abuse, suicide, mental health problems even in areas of the world where homosexuality is considered normative.

Of course, you mean where the countries goverments have passed laws that point in the 'right' direction...
...if you have the studies that demonstrate the complete lack of bigotry against homsoexuals in said countries, please provide them. I've mentioned this several times on MAD, with no reply.

...maybe you can be the first...
Civil unions are legal in this country - the UK. The age of consent is also the same age for homosexuals as hetrosexuals. (Where once it was different).
It's hard to think of any way the UK 'disciminates' against homosexuals anymore.
Yet anti-homosexual bigotry is still very much alive in this country. I see it around me daily.


Oh - and of course Monk is right. Children are not the only reason to get married, as you well know. You can dance around that all you like, but it won't change the fact of the matter.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Jesus Betsy! That fellow with his head in a bucket of tripe just accomplished the impossible: made me glad I married!

I have no children, never wanted any, and thought access to health care a most compelling reason. But being able to spite ridiculous jackasses works for me!
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

My point is merely that it's a very dangerous and destructive lifestyle choice and therefore not subject to legitimization in law nor a compelling reason to marry.

And it surely couldn't be that this lifestyle is dangerous and destructive because our society is full of bigots who are willing to physically exterminate homosexual people and/or discriminate against them in just about every area of life?


Not at all.

There are plenty of health benefits derived from being lesbian, such as lower risk of STDs and cervical cancer compared to heterosexual women.


Not according to science....Bernard J. Klamecki, “Medical Perspective of the Homosexual Issue” in J. Isamu Yamamoto, ed., The Crisis of Homosexuality (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1990) 116-123.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

Just wondering, bcspace, even if we agree that there's no compelling reason for homosexuals to marry (and obviously that is a debatable statement), what is the compelling reason to deny homosexuals the right to marry?
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
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