Conflicting Testimony

[_charity]

TD, I keep giving you the answer. In our hearts, we KNOW. God will judge our hearts and He knows exactly what we know. God will judge with a righteous judgement. We can trust that.

Actually you have still NOT answered the question at all. You are missing the point. Perhaps I am not clear enough.

You state that one will know truth by the light of Christ, in one's heart, they know. This does not answer the question.

I do not know how to ask it any more clearly than I have, but one more time just in case this helps.

I feel certain there are many people in the world who completely absolutely positively know without a shadow of a doubt that they are following the will of God, obeying ultimate truth, and KNOWING in their heart they are receiving a witness from God/HG/Christ, but in fact their witness opposes what many others could possibly believe is Godly.

So here is the question once again hopefully it is more clear.

If a person has a witness they truly KNOW is from God, how can they tell if it is actually NOT? If they KNOW in their hearts (but are clearly wrong) is there a way they can tell they are actually wrong?

I do not think you are saying that people cannot be wrong are you? Or that people should follow this witness no matter what?

When people truly THINK/BELIEVE/KNOW they are "passing the test" is there a way for them to know if they are not? Or do you not think it is possible? Do you think that if they "know" then they are indeed following God's will for them?

I'm not asking YOU to judge an individual, I'm asking how can anyone judge for themselves if they are right or wrong.

A couple of extreme examples to get the point across:

If a couple of guys had a witness and TRULY KNEW in their hearts they were asked by God to fly a plane into the Twin Towers, is there a way for them to know they are incorrect?

If a father truly believes he is called of God to receive the same test as Abraham, and agrees to kill his child, how can he know he is not actually receiving a message from the HG?

If an EV receives a powerful witness and KNOWS that the Book of Mormon is of Satan and KNOWS God has called her to help get members out of the religion, how can she know this is not the HG witnessing to her?

If a FLDS couple truly KNOWS and has a witness from God that they are to allow their twelve year old daughter to marry a sixty year old prophet with twenty wives is there a way for these parent to know their witness is not of God?

In other words, if people truly believe the light of Christ/HG/God/Divine IS IN FACT witnessing to them, is there a way for them to know if they are wrong, or hearing the wrong voice, or actually misinterpreting?

~dancer~

Your question is an impossible one. It really is, “How can I KNOW something is wrong if I KNOW it is right?

What do you want me to say about that?

I guess we will just have let God sort it out. He knows what a person really knows, deep down.

It is my opinion that many people who put on a public face of “God told me” really mean, “I can make a case for it and do what I find appealing to the carnal man and tell everyone God told me to do it.”

Ex: jihadists who are lusting after 70 virgins
Ex: EV’s who want to make Mormons look stupid and don’t give a fig for their souls
Ex: Fundamentalists who want to protect a licentious lifestyle

[_Doctor Steuss]

Ch$#@ty

Does this type of thing really belong in the upper kingdom?

[_truth dancer]

What do you want me to say about that?

Well, you did answer the question which is basically that there is no way to tell if someone thinks they are right but are wrong, or if someone believes they are "passing the test" but are failing, there is no way to tell.

I just find it an odd plan.

Oh well... thanks for responding.

:-)

~dancer~

[_charity]

What do you want me to say about that?

Well, you did answer the question which is basically that there is no way to tell if someone thinks they are right but are wrong, or if someone believes they are "passing the test" but are failing, there is no way to tell.

I just find it an odd plan.

Oh well... thanks for responding.

:-)

~dancer~

You forget, God knows EXACTLY what a person know. If the person is lusting after 70 virgins as he flies into the Tower, God knows that. If the EV gets any twinge of conscience about telling his Mormon neighbor. "You going to hell, but of course I am telling you out of love" but ignores it and keeps on going, God knows that.

It is a perfet test.

[_Inconceivable]

Ch$#@ty

Does this type of thing really belong in the upper kingdom?

WWJD?

[_harmony]

It is my opinion that many people who put on a public face of “God told me” really mean, “I can make a case for it and do what I find appealing to the carnal man and tell everyone God told me to do it.”

You realize you just described Joseph Smith, right?

Ex: Fundamentalists who want to protect a licentious lifestyle

You realize you just described Joseph and all the leaders who joined him in the Abomination, right?

[_truth dancer]

You forget, God knows EXACTLY what a person know. If the person is lusting after 70 virgins as he flies into the Tower, God knows that. If the EV gets any twinge of conscience about telling his Mormon neighbor.

The problem is not what God knows ... the problem is that "everyone" KNOWS they are truly following God, regardless of how horrible, cruel, or hurtful their behavior. (I use the word 'everyone' to describe the billions of people worldwide who believe they are TRULY following God).

"You going to hell, but of course I am telling you out of love" but ignores it and keeps on going, God knows that.

What does this mean? Are you describing terrorists? EVs? Mormons? JWs? Hmmm... not following you on this.

It is a perfet test.

How is a test where everyone is sure they are passing but are indeed failing, and where there is no way to tell if one is getting it right or not, a "perfect test?"

If God has created a test for humankind one would think that at the VERY least this God would figure out a way to help people know if they were on the right track or not..... but maybe not. (sigh)

~dancer~

[_charity]

You forget, God knows EXACTLY what a person know. If the person is lusting after 70 virgins as he flies into the Tower, God knows that. If the EV gets any twinge of conscience about telling his Mormon neighbor.

The problem is not what God knows ... the problem is that "everyone" KNOWS they are truly following God, regardless of how horrible, cruel, or hurtful their behavior. (I use the word 'everyone' to describe the billions of people worldwide who believe they are TRULY following God).

Your population numbers are skewed. I think most of the "everyone" aren't all that absolutely sure, but they say they are. But I will play the game. Suppose there are some who TRULY believe they are follwoing God when they aren't.

They start out with the Light of Christ. When they get off the path a little, they are told by the Light of Christ they are wrong. They feel a little twinge of guilt. But there is some reason why they want to be on the wrong path (peer pressure, greed, pride, lust, etc.) so they ignore it. They tell themselves what they really are doing is right. Over and over again this happens until they can't even hear the Light of Christ anymore. They use rationalizations and work really hard to convince themselves that God really wants them to do it (whatever that is.) They may tell you they absolutely know they are doing what God wants them to. But they had warnings and cautions for a long time they were wrong. They had to fight their consciences.

Now, they may be convinced that their wrong path is from God, but they knew before it wasn't, and they are held accoutnable for that.

They also KNOW that there are feelings about what they are doing which are wrong. But they ignore them.

"You going to hell, but of course I am telling you out of love" but ignores it and keeps on going, God knows that.

What does this mean? Are you describing terrorists? EVs? Mormons? JWs? Hmmm... not following you on this.

I said plainly this refers to EV's who are telling their Mormon neighbors they are going Old Testament hell. The EV will have a littl etwinge of conscience, or will get a little thrill of power, which will tell him he is wrong, but they will ignore those warnings and cautions and proceed anyway, because of the non-Christian carnal man.

It is a perfet test.

How is a test where everyone is sure they are passing but are indeed failing, and where there is no way to tell if one is getting it right or not, a "perfect test?" [/quote]

You keep making the false assumption that all those who are wrong (however you define wrong) have at their center the Light of Christ which is giving them cautions and warnings which they are choosing to ignore. They are defying their own scriptures to engage in the hurtful (sometimes that is too mild to describe what is happening) behaviors.

[
If God has created a test for humankind one would think that at the VERY least this God would figure out a way to help people know if they were on the right track or not..... but maybe not. (sigh)

God did. But it isn't His fault if they don't listen to what He has told them.

~dancer~[/quote]

[_charity]

It is my opinion that many people who put on a public face of “God told me” really mean, “I can make a case for it and do what I find appealing to the carnal man and tell everyone God told me to do it.”

You realize you just described Joseph Smith, right?

Ex: Fundamentalists who want to protect a licentious lifestyle

You realize you just described Joseph and all the leaders who joined him in the Abomination, right?

Harmony, you are so out of whack on the subject of plural marriage, nothing you say can be taken seriously. You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.

[_harmony]

It is my opinion that many people who put on a public face of “God told me” really mean, “I can make a case for it and do what I find appealing to the carnal man and tell everyone God told me to do it.”

You realize you just described Joseph Smith, right?

Ex: Fundamentalists who want to protect a licentious lifestyle

You realize you just described Joseph and all the leaders who joined him in the Abomination, right?

Harmony, you are so out of whack on the subject of plural marriage, nothing you say can be taken seriously. You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.

I wish I was on the wrong track about the Abomination, charity. Unfortunately, I'm following the historical evidence and it does not support your pink worldview at all. Unfortunately our own scriptures not only don't support it, but they soundly condemn it, but that didn't stop our leaders from indulging themselves in it.