I constantly hear that we need to obey and submit to the words of the leaders of the Church. I hear this in Church and from some ardent posters on this board. President Ezra Taft Benson put it this way:
It is well that our people understand this principle, so they will not be misled by those apostates within the Church who have not yet repented or been cut off. But there is a cleansing coming. The Lord says that his vengeance shall be poured out “upon the inhabitants of the earth. . . . And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me. . . .” (D&C 112:24-26.). I look forward to that cleansing; its need within the Church is becoming increasingly apparent.
The Lord strengthened the faith of the early apostles by pointing out Judas as a traitor, even before this apostle had completed his iniquitous work. So also in our day the Lord has told us of the tares within the wheat that will eventually be hewn down when they are fully ripe. But until they are hewn down, they will be with us, amongst us…
I am uncertain if this will mean that Nehor's Danite band will rise up and smite those of us who think for ourselves, or that the Church might decide on widespead excommunications till they have whittled the membership down to a sufficiently obedient million, or that this was merely rhetoric to let off a little steam from pent up anger and self doubt.
In any case, what is up with this huge desire for lockstep conformity?
ET was an ultra conservative member of the John Birch Society. He took the scriptures literally. He saw black and white.
ET also said many times that 3 Nephi paralleled our time (see Witness and a Warning). If that is the case, the weeding out was a catastrophic violence akin to the Great Flood.
3 Nephi gives the account of the The Prince of Peace (Jesus Christ) destroying many American cities and slaughtering 10's of thousands of men, women and children by burning, suffocating, crushing and drowning his victims. He accomplished all of this between the time of his death and resurrection - He didn't forgive them for what they did like he did the viscious Roman soldiers that crucified Him.
But maybe of course ET might have been talking about mass excommunications. I seriously doubt if this were to happen. Historically, the hierarchy prefers to make public examples out of a notable few to push everyone back into lock step.
The scriptures seem to indicate that the Earth will be cleansed prior to the Second Coming in stages. It starts with the Church being cleansed first. We are due for something that will scare off or cause the apostasy of our half-arsed members.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Notice the new testament doesn't mention the quorum of the twelve taking up arms against Judas. They merely left him to his own demise. So too in our day. We have only to keep the flock pure. Let the wicked destroy the wicked.
And inasmuch as my people shall assemble themselves at the Ohio, I have kept in store a blessing such as is not known among the children of men, and it shall be poured forth upon their heads. And from thence men shall go forth into all nations.
The Nehor wrote:The scriptures seem to indicate that the Earth will be cleansed prior to the Second Coming in stages. It starts with the Church being cleansed first. We are due for something that will scare off or cause the apostasy of our half-arsed members.
As well as those who are old and not married.
... our church isn't true, but we have to keep up appearances so we don't get shunned by our friends and family, fired from our jobs, kicked out of our homes, ... Please don't tell on me. ~maklelan
.. the new testament doesn't mention the quorum of the twelve taking up arms against Judas ...
What Could Have Jesus Done - without Judas the obedient? Should have he denounce himself to Caiaphas or Pilate??
Judas simply obeyed the command: "That thou doest, do quickly". (John 13:27) Probably, they have negotiated it before.
The other disciples didn't know what is all about: "Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him". (John 13:28)
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
The Nehor wrote:The scriptures seem to indicate that the Earth will be cleansed prior to the Second Coming in stages. It starts with the Church being cleansed first. We are due for something that will scare off or cause the apostasy of our half-arsed members.
As well as those who are old and not married.
I missed that passage. Know where to find it?
Sorry, I don't trust your encyclopedic knowledge of my faith.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Maybe Ezra Taft Benson was talking about his grandson Steve?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
ajax18 wrote:Maybe Ezra Taft Benson was talking about his grandson Steve?
Some of my former far right wing Mormon aquointances saw him (SB) as a hardcore liberal when he was a member - a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Interesting that they weren't too fond of Hinkley either. I recall one postulating that perhaps some of the brethren were conspiring to keep ET from presiding while during his presidency - that perhaps his failing health was intentional to keep him from conveying the Lord's word against the former Soviet Union, gays, abortion etc.
When ET began to fail in his health, he stopped attending general conference. Every once in a while he would get a little better and give some extremely difficult instruction from God over the pulpit (for example, To the fathers/mothers in Israel talks).
I don't think Hinkley would have ever given those talks.