Base matter and the Light of Christ

[_Gazelam]

Jersey,

Are you talking about laws of nature? The natural world?

Cartain truths are eternal and unchanging. Its simple for us to see that fire is fire, water is water. Just expand upon that to a universal level. Souls are eternal and can be exalted and strengthened by application of eternal laws. Nature responds to the command of a virtuous man, through His Priesthood and virtue God formed the worlds and organized spirits. He seeks to instruct us in these things if we would be obedient to his counsels.

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

What diminishes this is when you add plural marriage to the mix. Don't you see how the eternal principle of plural marriage throws all of this out of balance?

No liz, it expands upon it. You need to remove the aspect of sexual relations from the mix.

[_Yoda]

Liz,

What diminishes this is when you add plural marriage to the mix. Don't you see how the eternal principle of plural marriage throws all of this out of balance?

No liz, it expands upon it. You need to remove the aspect of sexual relations from the mix.

We've had this discussion before.

I AM removing sexual relations from the mix. I'm not talking about sexual relations. I'm talking about the emotional intimacy that occurs between a husband and wife. Sexual relations is an extension of that intimacy, but it is a small part of it.

[_Gazelam]

Harmony,

If, as I have been taught, angels are those who qualify for the lowest part of the CK and who administer to those who qualify for higher parts, and who are resurrected men... how could there be angels administering to Adam, since Adam was the first man?

There are various types of angels. Cherubim, Seraphim, etc... Peter, James and John were foreordianed in the pre-mortal time to be apostles to the Savior. As part of this ministry they came and visited with Adam and Abraham, and possibly many others.

God calls me to repentence. (all the time... *sigh*) I don't need a man to do it in his stead.

D&C 1:38

When was the last time you veiled your face in the temple, Gaz? Never. I hate to veil my face, sitting so submissive with the sisters on our side of the room, while the men can figuretively face God unveiled. Do you not see how offensive that is? How that degrades women, to have to hide, while the men are free?

Are you sure the veil you are wearing doesent work the other way?

Haven't read Sec 132 lately, have ya? There is nothing "uplifting" in that section. Nothing "exalting". There is eternal drudgery, eternal shame, eternity with women under men's thumb.

You are misinterpreting.

How many wives did Adam have?

To my knowledge ..one.

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

I'm talking about the emotional intimacy that occurs between a husband and wife.

How many of us have an intimate relationship with the Holy Ghost? Do you have an intimate relationship with Christ? Do oyu hope to have one after you arrive in heaven?

[_Yoda]

Liz,

I'm talking about the emotional intimacy that occurs between a husband and wife.

How many of us have an intimate relationship with the Holy Ghost? Do you have an intimate relationship with Christ? Do oyu hope to have one after you arrive in heaven?

Apples and oranges, Gaz. It's a different type of intimacy.

Let me expand on this further.

The emotional intimacy you have with your spouse differs from the emotional intimacy you have with your child, or your parent.

All are important, but they are very different.

I was always taught...and it is also reinforced in the Proclamation of the Family, that the relationship between husband and wife is THE most important intimacy. It is second only to the personal relationship one has with God.

However, if, as the plan of salvation indicates, we are all Gods in training, then, at some point, the relationship between husband and wife will even supercede the relationship that currently exists between God and man.

There is a partnership that exists between husband and wife that is hard to feasibly put into words. It is a two-way partnership. It involves decisions in raising children, in keeping deep confidences, in sharing your innermost thoughts....

Don't play dumb, Gaz. I KNOW you know what I'm talking about.

[_BobAliceEve]

Wow, this discussion is all over the place!!!! Very hard to follow and even harder to respond to. Can we focus?

Let me throw this out:

1) Fear sometimes means respect so the angels may have respected Adam.

2) The angels do not have to be celestial beings. All servants are angels. At the first, angels were the not-yet-embodied. As post-mortals became available they could serve. All angels who visited prior to Christ's resurrection were without bodies. Some who visited after Christ's resurrection can be celestial beings and the balance can be not yet embodied, or in some cases mortal but heavily under the influence of the Holy Ghost (i.e, when Paul was transfered from one location to another).

3) All children of God who would have lived the gospel had they had it qualify for the training required to be in the celestial kingdom. It is not a requirement that upon dying we have the ordinances but only that we accept them if they are offered or if they were done by proxy.

Did I miss anything.

[_harmony]

Wow, this discussion is all over the place!!!! Very hard to follow and even harder to respond to. Can we focus?

Let me throw this out:

1) Fear sometimes means respect so the angels may have respected Adam.

2) The angels do not have to be celestial beings. All servants are angels. At the first, angels were the not-yet-embodied. As post-mortals became available they could serve. All angels who visited prior to Christ's resurrection were without bodies. Some who visited after Christ's resurrection can be celestial beings and the balance can be not yet embodied, or in some cases mortal but heavily under the influence of the Holy Ghost (i.e, when Paul was transfered from one location to another).

3) All children of God who would have lived the gospel had they had it qualify for the training required to be in the celestial kingdom. It is not a requirement that upon dying we have the ordinances but only that we accept them if they are offered or if they were done by proxy.

Did I miss anything.

You missed the single most important part of the discussion, but since your first name is Bob, I suspect that's a product of your gender.

[_harmony]

Harmony,

If, as I have been taught, angels are those who qualify for the lowest part of the CK and who administer to those who qualify for higher parts, and who are resurrected men... how could there be angels administering to Adam, since Adam was the first man?

There are various types of angels. Cherubim, Seraphim, etc... Peter, James and John were foreordianed in the pre-mortal time to be apostles to the Savior. As part of this ministry they came and visited with Adam and Abraham, and possibly many others.

So now you're saying Peter, James and John were angels prior to their receiving earthly bodies? CFR. Now. (and please try to remember that there are scriptures I don't accept.)

God calls me to repentence. (all the time... *sigh*) I don't need a man to do it in his stead.

D&C 1:38

And that's one of those I don't accept. The day I allow a man to tell me what to do is not a day that is coming soon. I am the "the servant" in that scripture, at least as it applies to me. No one stands between me and God, Gaz. No one. Were my bishop or SP to try, they know exactly what would happen: I would walk away with my testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel intact.

Are you sure the veil you are wearing doesent work the other way?

Address the statement as it's written, Gaz, not as you wish it was.

Haven't read Sec 132 lately, have ya? There is nothing "uplifting" in that section. Nothing "exalting". There is eternal drudgery, eternal shame, eternity with women under men's thumb.

You are misinterpreting.

You are entitled to your own inspiration. You are NOT entitled to tell me what MY inspiration tells me. Not now, not ever.

How many wives did Adam have?

To my knowledge ..one.

Well, let us all follow Adam's example, instead of Joseph's.

[_harmony]

Jersey,

Are you talking about laws of nature? The natural world?

Cartain truths are eternal and unchanging. Its simple for us to see that fire is fire, water is water. Just expand upon that to a universal level. Souls are eternal and can be exalted and strengthened by application of eternal laws.

This does not track. Water and fire are physical elements and can be felt, seen, tasted, smelled, and heard. Souls are not part of the physical elements and therefore cannot be tested the same way the physical elements are.

You're mixing apples and iron, Gaz. Try again.

Nature responds to the command of a virtuous man,...

This is unadulterated balderdash. Nature does NOT respond to any command of man, virtuous or otherwise. If that were so, we wouldn't have things like hurricanes and tsunamis. The priesthood is a capricious thing; it works sometimes and doesn't work others.

... through His Priesthood and virtue God formed the worlds and organized spirits. He seeks to instruct us in these things if we would be obedient to his counsels.

Obedience to his counsel, yes. perhaps. But obedience to a man's counsel, who thinks he's channeling God's will, is left up to the individual to decide. Because it's entirely possible the man is not channeling God's will at all, but is simply following his own inclinations... and we've all paid the price for at least one man's inclinations.