Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

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_MCB
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _MCB »

it would be the kind that considers sentence structure (e.g., frequency of subordinate clauses, etc.)
I have a tendency to produce very long, complex sentences. I monitor this consciously. When I produce one that is overly long, I go back, and simplify. That is the most easily manipulated stylistic characteristic.
the reliability of word counts and statistics in these matters.... historical and textual analysis...... stylistic analysis,
That is a rather fragmented approach. What about those who advocate the use of all methods available? What if the results of all these methodologies support each other?

What if those present during Joseph Smith's effort were lying because they wanted to profit from it? And the few who weren't lying were dupes.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

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_Uncle Dale
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Dan Vogel wrote:...I’m more comfortable with historical and textual analysis.
...


Speaking of which --- have you ever noticed the pattern of
occurrence of the redundant "that" in Book of Mormon phraseology?

It also appears in the Book of Commandments -- as in that
volume's chapter XV, in the form of "after that...," etc.

In the recent Jockers' authorship attribution study, BoC XV
is attributed to the authorship of Sidney Rigdon at an 82%
degree of relative certainty.

I do not know what attribution the BYU word-printers are
assigning to BoC XV -- but, no matter who wrote the text,
it appears that its redundant "that" is coupled with the
"wherefore" side of the therefore/wherefore distribution in
the Book of Mormon.

My guess is that the unknown writer who introduced the
clustered occurrences of "wherefore" in the opening and
closing sections of the Book of Mormon was the same writer who
introduced the redundant insertions of "that" in those same
sections of the Book of Mormon.

Of course it may have been the same writer throughout --
but that conclusion still would not account for the timing
of the simultaneous increase in "wherefore" and "that," at
the expense of the previous tendency to use "therefore"
and sentences without a redundant "that,"

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_MCB
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _MCB »

Dale- simplified:

Another characteristic is the “wherefore-therefore shift.” We see in chapter XV of the Book of Commandments a redundant use of "after that...," In Jockers et al, Rigdon was the probable author of BoC XV at an 82% significance level. This redundant "that" is frequently in close juxtaposition with the word “wherefore” in the Book of Mormon. Rigdon may have been responsible for the redundant insertions of "that" in the Book of Mormon, as well as the clustered occurrences of "wherefore." Both occur with a high frequency in the opening and closing sections of the book, supposedly written nearly 1000 years apart in time.
If the same person wrote the entire Book of Mormon, what can account for this phenomenon? The simultaneous increase the tendency to use "therefore" and decrease of sentences with a redundant "that," is present in sections of the Book of Mormon where Rigdon attribution is less frequent.

Poor reading comprehension and a closed mind sometimes go hand-in-hand.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _Uncle Dale »

MCB wrote:...a closed mind
...


I'm not accusing anyone in particular of suffering from a
closed mind. However, for those promoting "historical and
textual analysis," we might begin to present a comprehensive
explanation of how the Book of Mormon text was constructed
and re-constructed, between 1826 and 1829.

For example, in her recent revision of "Joseph Smith's
Plagiarism," Sandra Tanner devotes considerable space to
the wherefore/therefore division in the Book of Mormon text -- and
yet, she does not provide a compelling reason for why
this change in phraseology occurred.

As I said previously ----

Mrs. Tanner appears to have been particularly impressed with the fact that Solomon Spalding did not write his Oberlin manuscript in the old-fashioned scriptural style. Since that narrative was supposed to sound like a report from a Roman officer from the time of Constantine, it of course was not composed in KJV gospel language. In a few instances Spalding briefly emulated archaic English, such as when he was supposedly quoting from ancient American scriptures. But for the most part, the language of the Roman story was purposefully composed in a style differing from the King James Bible. The results can be seen in how Spalding used the word therefore. Two examples are: "It must therefore be the height of folly..." and "it must therefore be our duty to declare..." In both cases Spalding used "must therefore" as a modifier, and not just as a conjunction to connect phrases. Had he resorted to a biblical style, Spalding might have dropped therefore and used a more archaic expression such as "it must needs be that they cannot dwell..." (1Nephi).

But the writer of Joseph Smith's Plagiarism says "Neither the way Spalding used the word therefore nor the number of times it is found in his manuscript conforms to the pattern we find in the Book of Mormon." And of course not -- Spalding's Roman story was not meant to emulate the KJV in the way that the Nephite record does. But that does not mean that Spalding never used therefore as a conjunction. For example: "From this ground therefore I conceive no objection..." Third Nephi provides two similar constructions: "...noble spirit in the field of battle; therefore I write unto you," and "down until the present time; therefore I do make my record." Compare also this Spalding construction: "therefore it is an act of the greatest impiety..." with two excerpts from Alma: "...therefore it is cast away," and "...therefore it is expedient that there should be..."

It is wrong to say that Spalding never used therefore in a manner similar to how the Book of Mormon writers used the word; but it is true that his Roman story's language is not generally similar to their language. In order to isolate those parts of the Nephite record bearing the greatest similarity to the Roman story, the reader is referred to the "Record of Helaman" in Alma 44-59 (excluding chapters 45 and 54).

Mrs. Tanner appears happy that Spalding did not employ the word wherefore in his Roman story. But again, what logical reason would there be for him to have done so? Are Roman officers in historical accounts more believable when they say wherefore? The reader might more aptly expect to read "wherefore" in a lofty legal record or an even loftier reproduction of Divine revelation. And just so, that is what occurs at 3Nephi 13:30 -- "Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field..." Jesus Christ there is supposedly giving Divine instruction to the Nephites (as copied from Matthew 6:30, which reads the same). No matter that both texts also provide examples of therefore in the same sermon -- the wherefore must have caught the attention of the Book of Mormon writer(s). The word reappears in 3Nephi 14:20, in the continuation of Matthew's rendition of the Divine sermon. When the Book of Mormon writer(s) began relating the precepts leading up to the Christophany in Ether, the word reappeared in conjunction with "the everlasting decrees of God," (Ether 2:10). Again, in Ether 2:15, it is Jesus Christ who is speaking, when wherefore makes another appearance. Finally, in Ether 3:20, the same Christ makes himself visible to the brother of Jared, pronounces a wherefore, and exalts the prophet's previous faith to become the "perfect knowledge of God." From this point forward in Book of Mormon composition wherefore begins to replace the previously employed therefore, until the latter word disappears altogether before Ether ends.

Assuming that Oliver Cowdery's writing down pages of the Nephite record then moved over to 1st Nephi and 2nd Nephi, the question arises as to why some instances of therefore are found in those late sections of Book of Mormon composition. Some of the occurrences thus encountered obviously arise from the reproduction of pre-existing texts. Could it be that a few of those instances are traceable to a pre-existing Solomon Spalding narrative? A thorough and careful application of authorship attribution methodology may help answer that question. It is very doubtful, however, that the results of any such future study will exclude Solomon Spalding as the original author of at least a significant portion of the book's wherefore passages.

The therefore / wherefore distribution, the who/whosoever distribution, and the redundant "that" distribution in the "Nephite record" almost certainly represent the iceberg tip of a much more extensive language shift in Book of Mormon texts following the 3rd Nephi Christophany. Quite likely the writer(s) opted for a loftier, more majestic English, with which to relate the opening of the supposed "Sixth Dispensation" and the establishment of the "fulness of the Gospel" in the ancient Americas.

The language of Mosiah-Alma-Helaman is that of the late 18th century Appalachian dialect, interspersed with emulated phraseology from the King James Bible. The language of Moroni and of the "small plates" is that of Early Modern English, copied from some 16th century text. The transition between these two distinct varieties of pseudo-scriptural English begins in 3rd Nephi, but it did not become the textual standard until the middle of the book of Ether was being dictated. That is -- the enhancement of the narrative language began gradually and haphazardly with the 3rd Nephi Christophany, but reached its full scope in the Ether Christophany. From that point forward the discerning reader should be able to pick out a number of words and phrases rarely encountered in Mosiah, Alma, Helaman and the initial chapters of 3rd Nephi. And, as Mrs. Tanner points out, the same phenomenon can be discerned in Book of Commandments Ch. XII (dated June, 1829), in which "Jesus Christ the Son of the living God" employs that book's first wherefore in calling David Whitmer to help "bring forth the fulness of my gospel." There is no doubt that the motivation and the timing of BoC XII and Ether 3:20 were the same. Mrs. Tanner may wish to consult the latest wordprint results, in order to see to whom the authorship of these important texts might be assigned.

Uncle Dale
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_MCB
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _MCB »

I'm not accusing anyone in particular of suffering from a
closed mind.
However, it must needs be that whomsoever does write for those who read according to their own understanding, must write in a plain and simple manner.

Thank you for your further explanations. I must take some time to digest that.
The reader might more aptly expect to read "wherefore" in a lofty legal record
Legalese frequently uses "wherefore," indeed, an antiquated word.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Uncle Dale wrote:...the iceberg tip of a much more extensive language shift in Book of Mormon texts
...



Let's suppose for a moment that the Jockers set of 239 Book of Mormon chapters'
authorship attributions is unreliable ----

His study's report nevertheless supplies a "texture map" of the Book of Mormon,
from one point of view. Whether or not Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon chapters
that Jockers assigns to his probable authorship is not so important as the fact
of certain chapters being enough alike in their "wordprint" as to be grouped into
the category of Smith-like texts -- or Cowdery-like texts -- or Pratt-like texts.

In my earlier years I studied remote sensing -- the examination of objects at
a distance through the application of visible light photography; or infra red;
or ultra violet; or x-rays; or microwaves; etc. The combination of these several
different remotely sensed images resulted in a sharper, more detailed and
clearly defined portrayal of the distant object.

The Jockers' report should be thought of as just one more attempt at "texture
mapping" the Book of Mormon. It shows that certain parts of the "Nephite" text
more closely resemble each other, than they do other parts of the same book.

I would hope that our skeptical critics would at least take the time to inspect the
occurrence patterns discovered by the Jockers team. But I suspect that they won't.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _Uncle Dale »

MCB wrote:...Legalese frequently uses "wherefore," indeed, an antiquated word.



It might be worthwhile to trace backwards (in 15th century British wills,
real estate transfers, etc.) the evolution of "wherefore" as a conjunction.

In Shakespeare the word appears as an interrogatory adverb:
"Romeo, Romeo -- wherefore art thou, Romeo?"

Here "wherefore" superficially means "where;" but is applied more in
terms of "where from" or "why" --- "From whence cometh Romeo?"

So now we can study The Bard's plays, strangely seeking out a
"where/wherefore" dichotomy or a "why/wherefore" dichotomy,
I suppose.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_MCB
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _MCB »

Good point. I had forgotten to specify "used as a conjunction." :)

Anyone trying to develop an algorithm by which to correct for Book of Mormon English should take care to not develop one which would erase the variations of Book of Mormon English within the book.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _Uncle Dale »

MCB wrote:Good point...



Consider also, this (with Jockers' authorship attributions added) ---

A-prefix


http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm

Improper use of "a" in the 1830 edition later deleted from text



"As I was a journeying to see a very near kindred..." (1830 page 249) [Alma 10:7] Rigdon/Cowdery

"And as I was a going thither..." (1830 page 249) [Alma 10:8] Rigdon/Cowdery

"... the foundation of the destruction of this people is a beginning to be laid..." (1830 page 251) [Alma 10:27] Rigdon/Cowdery

"... he met with the sons of Mosiah, a journeying towards the land..." (1830 page 269) [Alma 17:1] Rigdon/Spalding

"... with the Lamanitish servants, a going forth with their flocks" (1830 page 271) [Alma 17:26] Rigdon/Spalding

"... as Ammon and Lamoni was a journeying thither..." (1830 page 280) [Alma 20:8] Rigdon/Cowdery

"... there he found Muloki a preaching the word..." (1830 page 284) [Alma 21:11] Rigdon/Spalding

"... went about from house to house, a begging for his food." (1830 page 309) [Alma 30:56] Rigdon (strong)

"And Korihor did go about from house to house, a begging food..." (1830 page 309) [Alma 30:58] Rigdon (strong)

"... Moroni, on the other hand, had been a preparing the minds..." (1830 page 358) [Alma 48:7] Spalding (strong)

"... the armies of the Lamanites are a marching towards the city..." (1830 page 389) [Alma 57:31] Pratt/Spalding

"... the Lamanites saw that Moroni was a coming against them..." (1830 page 403) [Alma 62:31] Rigdon/Spalding

"... the Lamanites a marching towards them..." (1830 page 529) [Mormon 6:7] Spalding (strong)


"... and that they were in a preparation to hear the word" (1830 page 313) [Alma 32:6] Rigdon/Cowdery

"And thus Moroni had obtained a possession of the city Mulek ..." (1830 page 373) [Alma 52:26] Rigdon/Spalding




We see the "a-prefix" in the Book of Mormon, exclusively
in the "large plates," separated from the "therefore" section
of the Nephite record. Why is that?

On one hand, the a-prefix is only known to occur in the
personal writings of members of the Rigdon family -- that is,
we do not find it in the utterances of Joseph Smith, or of
Oliver Cowdery and Parley P. Pratt (all New Englanders) but
we do find it used in Sidney Rigdon's correspondence, and
in John W. Rigdon's biography of his father -- in one instance,
at least, where John is quoting Sidney directly.

On the other hand, Jockers attributes Alma 34 to the
authorship of Oliver Cowdery -- and there we find this passage:

>And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law;
>every whit a pointing to that great and last sacrifice

"Every whit" is found in the preserved language of Oliver
Cowdery, but not in that of Smith, Rigdon and Pratt. So, we
might try and discern a pattern of word-strings such as
"every whit" occurring in Book of Mormon chapters attributed to Cowdery.

But immediately following "every whit," we see yet another
instance of the a-prefix, in "a pointing to that..."

What are we to make of such Book of Mormon linguistic oddities?

Should we conclude that -- on the very day that Joseph
Smith decided to use "wherefore" in place of "therefore," he
also decided to quit saying "every whit," and to quit making
use of the a-prefixed verbs in his Book of Mormon dictation?

...... or, might the answer to these oddities lie in the fact
that multiple authors were contributing to the Book of Mormon text?

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_MCB
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Re: Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

Post by _MCB »

Oh!! Wow-- I have always wondered about the ' "a" [verb]' usage. Never thought to look for it. my first hypothesis was that it was a backwoods Smithism, and artifact of the dictation of the text.

Sometimes I feel rather-- dumb. I'll go through her list of errors and see which are more or less common according to Jockers' attributions.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
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