As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

If O objects, I will happily delete the entry. I just wanted him to know that he has friends here.

Then PM his ass. Don't post his personal crap on a public forum. Jesus.

[_stemelbow]

Then PM his ass. Don't post his personal s*** on a public forum. Jesus.

Agreed--although I object to the need to bring Jesus into all this (pep pep). That seems pretty low. Even if he's fine with it after-the-fact it seems mischeivous and heartless. If he objects then I feel this probably ranks to the top of the list of poor behavior found here.

[_Spurven Ten Sing]

He has brought it up more times than I can count at MAD. He is open about it. No offense intended.

That's me, the lowest.

[_harmony]

Back to the subject, please.

Why do you think the KFD, while not canonized, is all over the endowment?

[_Yoda]

He has brought it up more times than I can count at MAD. He is open about it. No offense intended.

That's me, the lowest.

(Moderator Note) For future reference....Per board rules...Please refrain from posting personal information about another poster unless, he/she, him/herself, has brought up that information on MDB.

Thanks!

[_harmony]

Back to the subject, please.

Why do you think the KFD, while not canonized, is all over the endowment?

Bump for an answer.

[_Jason Bourne]

The King Follet Discource specifically states that the Father was once a man as Christ was once a man.

I would not say specifically but it certainly implies that the Father's sojourn as a mortal man was much like that of Jesus. I have no problem with the position that the Father was a savior of a world like Jesus. And in fact, in my own speculative musings I figure the Father,or the Eternal God of all other gods, as the intelligence that was more intelligent than all other intelligences combined, started the whole process. He realized to progress he/we needed a physical body. So he created the first earth with humans and he was the Savior for that world and that got the process started.

Second, the KFD is not "doctrine", scripture, or revelation to the Church.

I may not be scripture or revelation but it is doctrine by the fact that it has been preached and taught over and over again from general conference pulpits and published by the Church in its manuals and in its magazines. This makes it doctrine. Period. You are simply wrong about this.

It was Joseph's personal inspiration and revelation. We ALL how are faithful tend to have the same personal revelation. But, it's not doctrine.

Yes it is doctrine. Apologists for some odd reason want to weasel out of this. Not sure why.

Third, most references to the KFD in LDS literature is in reference to other issues, not that the Father was once a man, and if it does address it, it's simply addressing a teaching, not that it's doctrine. Even though yes, I know and can see "some" have called it doctrine.

There are a plethora of references to God the Father being a man from the KFD in LDS manuals. It was is not a rare thing. Darth and others have already shown that here. Why are you so anxious to do away with this doctrine? I think you are a heretic and if I were you SP and you were teaching this in Church I might have to bring you up for a DC.

Sorry, but personal opinions have never made doctrine of the Church.

Yes and you should practice what you preach. Personal opinion does not make something not doctrine either. We have evidence. You have posturing and opinion.

I've told you guys the actual doctrine of the Church related to this issue.

And you are simply full of it. We know the doctrine as well and even apparently better than you. Were I a TBM I would be pretty upset with you for attempting to do away with an important LDS doctrine.

Accept it or not. But the sin be upon you for not believing our words.

I do not accept false doctrine from false teachers. You sir are the sinner. Obiwan, ask around. Ask your ward and stake members. Ask the next GA you meet. Ask is it doctrine of the Church that God the Father was once a man. See what you get.

We know our religion, YOU ALL do not. You just think you do.... I know because I've been there. I've had your arrogance and elitism toward the Church and religion itself. You're not impressive in your lazy intellectual degredations

We can see that Obiwan is now desperate so he turns to degradations and personal attacks.

Look dude, I have studied this issue over and over as a 51 year LDS person. Never, ever have I heard anyone other than a few odd apologists argue this is not doctrine. You are the one who is full of arrogance and hubris. GAs teach it and taught is as DOCTRINE.

[_Brackite]

Here is the Definition of Lying, By LDS Author, Robert J. Matthews:

Thus, the ninth commandment is a strong declaration against covenant breaking, oath breaking, and all forms of untruth, including exaggeration, gross understatement, fabrication, or the willful giving of any explanation not supported by the facts. Even sharing the truth can have the effect of lying when we tell only half-truths that do not give a full picture. We can also be guilty of bearing false witness and lying if we say nothing, particularly if we allow another to reach a wrong conclusion while we hold back information that would have led to a more accurate perception. In this case it is as though an actual lie were uttered.

( October, 1994, Ensign: Hyper-Link: )

[_Tator]

To put Obiwan in context:

Obiwan is going through a tough time these last six or so months. (Moderator Note)Personal information deleted. Please refrain from addressing personal information regarding other posters unless they have specifically brought those matters up themselves. Thanks. Liz
I speculate that O is working things out and any criticisms of the church will feel like what little he has is being threatened.

I have reached out to O to help him, to listen and I hope others here do the same.

I am sorry for Obi's situation (Moderator Note) Personal information deleted. Liz

I wish Obi the best in this situation, I've been there.

Obi and Liz, I didn't realize, I apologize. I do wish you the best, Obi.

[_Tchild]

Obi and Liz, I didn't realize, I apologize. I do wish you the best, Obi.

As do I. Whatever your personal life and challenges, know that others empathize and hope for your best, idealogies aside.