Peterson Speaks for Himself on "Anti-Mormonism"

[_Daniel Peterson]

I’m more than able to defend this odd and silly notion, if you care to find out.

I don't really care, honestly.

None of this explains why you listed Martin Heidegger as an example of opposition to existentialism.

I explained it already.

You are more than welcome to challenge me on it.

I appreciate the permission. If I ever feel the need to do so, and somebody doubts my right to do so, I'll quote you.

[_Buffalo]

I have no problem whatever with this, in several regards.

But it's actually helpful to refer to adherents of intelligent design, for instance, as "anti-Darwinists," and to pro-life demonstrators as "anti-abortion," and to certain leaders of the French Revolution as "anti-Catholic."

Such references don't exhaust what they were or are, and other designators may be useful and even, in many or most circumstances, preferable, but there's nothing wrong with using the "anti-" descriptors. They add information and specificity, which I see as, on balance, a good thing.

So is it helpful to refer to Mormons as cultists? Which Peterson do I believe here?

"Perhaps the best approach would be to apply to each group the name that its adherents use in referring to themselves."

:)

[_Daniel Peterson]

So is it helpful to refer to Mormons as cultists?

No, it's not. For reasons that I've set forth elsewhere.

"Any and all alternative labels are helpful" is a giant leap from "Some alternative labels are helpful."

The latter is my position. The former is not.

I've laid out why I think anti-Mormon is a helpful and, properly used, non-pejorative term. As you know, I've also laid out, elsewhere, why I think that cultist, in a non-trivial sense, is virtually always pejorative.

[_Buffalo]

So is it helpful to refer to Mormons as cultists?

No, it's not. For reasons that I've set forth elsewhere.

"Any and all alternative labels are helpful" is a giant leap from "Some alternative labels are helpful."

The latter is my position. The former is not.

I've laid out why I think anti-Mormon is a helpful and, properly used, non-pejorative term. As you know, I've also laid out, elsewhere, why I think that cultist, in a non-trivial sense, is virtually always pejorative.

This seems awfully self-serving. It might help if you afforded "anti-Mormons" the same courtesy you're asking for from those who refer to you as "cultists." It's okay when you do it, but not when others do it to you.

[_Buffalo]

I do not use the term cult or cultist “as a power play” (any more than my use of the terms sect, group, congregation or church is “a power play”). It is not a way for me “to reduce a person to something ‘other.”

I use the word cult merely to indicate the textbook definition of the group in question. Nothing more, nothing less. Such a designation can be good or bad.

[_Daniel Peterson]

This seems awfully self-serving. It might help if you afforded "anti-Mormons" the same courtesy you're asking for from those who refer to you as "cultists." It's okay when you do it, but not when others do it to you.

I've published an argument regarding the term cult. You're evidently aware of the argument. If you care to actually engage it, you're welcome to do so.

I do not believe that the term anti-Mormon, as I use it, is pejorative -- any more than my use of terms like anti-depressant, anti-fascist, anti-slavery, or antifreeze is pejorative -- and, accordingly, do not believe that it is subject to the argument that I made regarding the term cult. If you wish to try to demonstrate otherwise, you're welcome to make the attempt.

[_Buffalo]

I do not believe that the term anti-Mormon, as I use it, is pejorative -- any more than my use of terms like anti-depressant, anti-fascist, anti-slavery, or antifreeze is pejorative -- and, accordingly, do not believe that it is subject to the argument that I made regarding the term cult. If you wish to try to demonstrate otherwise, you're welcome to make the attempt.

It doesn't matter if you believe it's pejorative. Some people obviously do, and common courtesy dictates that you avoid using terms that your targets find pejorative if you wish to claim the same courtesy for yourself, cultist*.


*I use the term cultist in a non-pejorative sense, of course. :)

[_Daniel Peterson]

It doesn't matter if you believe it's pejorative. Some people obviously do, and common courtesy dictates that you avoid using terms that your targets find pejorative if you wish to claim the same courtesy for yourself

I would be interested in seeing a representative list of those whom I have termed "anti-Mormon" and who have objected to it. There may be a few, but there can't be too many, because I don't use the term all that much. And, when I do, it's virtually always with reference to people where, if the term has any meaning at all, essentially nobody would disagree.

I do favor courtesy, but I also disdain political correctness. I'm very reluctant to turn control of the language over to people who assert quasi-dictatorial rights based on alleged victimhood and carefully cultivated hypersensitivity.

Watch my (occasional) usage of the term. I apply it to Walter Martin, Ed Decker, and Bill Schnoebelen sometimes, and feel quite justified in doing so, but I don't apply it to people like Dan Vogel, Mike Quinn, Jon Krakauer, and Brent Metcalfe.

It's a perfectly good term, and quite properly applied to those who actively oppose Mormonism (as anti-abortionist is to those who oppose abortion, and as anti-depressant is to medicines that combat biochemical depression). It conveys actual information about the subject. Cultist, on the other hand, when used by polemicists to stigmatize Mormons (or even Catholics, which I have seen done on occasion), is not properly applied, but is employed only to stigmatize and to marginalize. If it conveys information -- I've published an argument to this effect -- it does so about the attitude toward the subject of the person using the word, rather than about the subject as such.

[_Buffalo]

I do favor courtesy, but I also disdain political correctness. I'm very reluctant to turn control of the language over to people who assert quasi-dictatorial rights based on alleged victimhood and carefully cultivated hypersensitivity.

Watch my (occasional) usage of the term. I apply it to Walter Martin, Ed Decker, and Bill Schnoebelen sometimes, and feel quite justified in doing so, but I don't apply it to people like Dan Vogel, Mike Quinn, Jon Krakauer, and Brent Metcalfe.

It's a perfectly good term, and quite properly applied to those who actively oppose Mormonism (as anti-abortionist is to those who oppose abortion, and as anti-depressant is to medicines that combat biochemical depression). It conveys actual information about the subject. Cultist, on the other hand, when used by polemicists to stigmatize Mormons (or even Catholics, which I have seen done on occasion), is not properly applied, but is employed only to stigmatize and to marginalize. If it conveys information -- I've published an argument to this effect -- it does so about the attitude toward the subject of the person using the word, rather than about the subject as such.

It seems that your argument for pejorative vs non-pejorative is based purely on your assertion that it is thus.

In deference to your disdain of political correctness, alleged victimhood and carefully cultivated hypersensitivity, I will henceforth refer to you as Dan "Cultmeister*" Peterson.


*Not pejorative

[_Daniel Peterson]

It seems that your argument for pejorative vs non-pejorative is based purely on your assertion that it is thus.

No. It's not.

I've published an argument regarding the term cult that was based on fairly extensive reading in primary source materials to see how the word was used. I've invited you to survey how I myself actually use the term anti-Mormon. I think that any fair-minded person making such a comparison will readily see the difference.

In deference to your disdain of political correctness, alleged victimhood and carefully cultivated hypersensitivity, I will henceforth refer to you as Dan "Cultmeister*" Peterson.

*Not pejorative

Go ahead. I'm often called much worse things here.