No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

[_Runtu]

Personally I don't see that stem has done anything wrong. So he admits that his world view isn't perfectly rational. I do think that makes him more honest than most. That he gets bludgeoned for doing so helps me appreciate why many apologists avoid being as frank as he was.

His honesty is refreshing, in my opinion. In the end, religious belief has its basis in spiritual or emotional experiences. The scriptures deride those whose faith is based on reason and learning; it is a spiritual conversion that is needed. It's nice to hear someone say that they believe based on their spiritual experiences, even though they know there are rational and intellectual problems with that belief. And no, that doesn't make believers nuts.

I respect that.

[_Ceeboo]

His world view isn't perfectly rational?
lol.
He's not just somewhat slightly imperfectly irrational - he's nuts!!
If you like living in a crazy world, vote for Stemelbow as apolgist. He'll get your job done! Right up there with Packer!

ShadowFax, nuts? REALLY?

I don't think so. Your standards for sanity would probably exclude the vast majority of humankind. With standards that high, you are bound to be constantly disappointed.

I am not sure stem's so-called "insanity" is all that much more harmful than living for Sci-Fi conventions and the like. He dresses up, he talks about the Prime Directive or some such, and he celebrates Yuri's Night with his pals. You want to make a big deal out of the fact that Star Trek was made up, when the Prime Directive isn't such a bad philosophy in any case.

I say let it go, and quit having a go at stem for wearing Vulcan ears in public.

Wait........................................................ WHAT?

Are you suggesting Star Trek isn't real either?



Oh dear!
Peace,
Ceeboo

[Guest]

His world view isn't perfectly rational?
lol.
He's not just somewhat slightly imperfectly irrational - he's nuts!!
If you like living in a crazy world, vote for Stemelbow as apolgist. He'll get your job done! Right up there with Packer!

ShadowFax, nuts? REALLY?

I don't think so. Your standards for sanity would probably exclude the vast majority of humankind. With standards that high, you are bound to be constantly disappointed.

I am not sure stem's so-called "insanity" is all that much more harmful than living for Sci-Fi conventions and the like. He dresses up, he talks about the Prime Directive or some such, and he celebrates Yuri's Night with his pals. You want to make a big deal out of the fact that Star Trek was made up, when the Prime Directive isn't such a bad philosophy in any case.

I say let it go, and quit having a go at stem for wearing Vulcan ears in public.

You’re comparing whacky harmless trekkies with an apologist who consciously wants to bugger up society for his fun, pleasure, hobby and amusement by perpetuating known deceptions while simultaneously chastising critics about the lack of love and trying to champion on the side of love?
I’m not sure how many trekkies affect family relationships, prevent people from going to their children’s marriages, or create workplace problems. This comparison defiles the good name of sci-fi trekkies all over the world!! Lol

The only thing in common with the mo apologist, such as Stemelbow’s type, might be that a clingon trekkie may go out of his way to learn clingon; whereas a rabid apologist might go out of his way to learn and embrace the Joseph Smith language of SmithEgyptian and try to make sense of, or throw around words in a conversation like, ki-floss-is, kolob-beam, zub-zubzool and yabadabadoo. That’s about where the comparison starts and ends. How many trekkies do you know who consciously want to bugger up society and perpetuate deception because they like the s&m fallout that such causes.

Surely you’re kidding.
At this point you’re supposed to insert the reply, “no, I’m not kidding and my name isn’t Shirley.” (homage to the classic Airport joke.)

I find that about as refreshing as stepping into a pile of dog poop. However, in future when I “have” to attend a church, or when I’m at work and experiencing strange Mormon conversational stuff, or going to the large and spacious mall, I’ll just imagine everybody in Vulcan ears to see if that helps.

Actually, I looked in the dictionary for the meaning of the word Stemelbow and here’s what I found.

,noun, verb, stemelbow, stemelbowed, stem•ming, stemelbowing.

–noun
1. craaaaazy! Bat Guano insane!

2. A religious loon who consciously and actively engages in perpetuating religious deception for the sake of causing fun, spice and giggles and general buggering up of families and workplace for those who don’t share in the same dogmatic indoctrination.

3. Often located on discussion boards pedaling his brand of craaazy for the fun of it.


4. Often simultaneously found spewing remarks about love as per his example.


5. generally hard to follow in a discussion because the apologetic approach used has reduced his brain cells to incoherent nonsense.

Grammar . the underlying form, often consisting of a root plus an affix, to which the inflectional endings of a word are added, as tend-, the stem in Latin tendere “to stretch,” the root of which is ten-. Compare base1 def. 18 , theme def. 5 .
- stretching lies by claiming it’s truth while having fun while families suffer as a result.

stemelbowing, Slang: You’re stemelbowing.
- engaging in a conscious act to perpetuate suffering and deception in the name of love and fun.

stemelbowed, Slang: you’ve been Stemelbowed.

- finding oneself on the receiving end of a stemelbow apology routine resulting from stemelbows love for consciously promoting deception for the fun “game” of it.

- stemming, Slang: a person applying Stemelbows apologetic techniques and goals.

Use in a sentence: Daniel Peterson and Will Schryver were caught "stemming" on MDBoard.
Stop stemelbowing me; it hurts.

Origin:
before 2011; Mormon; Western hemisphere, derivative of reformed Egyptian combined with strong EA and GAEL influences.
of stemn, stefn, equivalent to ste- (variant of sta-, base of standan to stand) + -mn- suffix; akin to German Stamm stem, tribe; see insane, craaaazy, bat guano nutjob, loon.

[_stemelbow]

Shadowfax,

How many trekkies do you know who consciously want to bugger up society and perpetuate deception because they like the s&m fallout that such causes.

you're continued observations regarding me and my efforts are just dead on. I don't know why others haven't identified that yet.

[_Themis]

His honesty is refreshing, in my opinion. In the end, religious belief has its basis in spiritual or emotional experiences. The scriptures deride those whose faith is based on reason and learning; it is a spiritual conversion that is needed. It's nice to hear someone say that they believe based on their spiritual experiences, even though they know there are rational and intellectual problems with that belief. And no, that doesn't make believers nuts.

I respect that.

I agree. He is not the first I have met in the church or even in other religions that recognize the physical evidence does not support certain religious claims but maintains beliefs for other reasons, one of which is simply based on spiritual or even faith. My experience is that they tend to be intelligent and rational people. Hey they have already rationally concluded current evidence does not support some of their beliefs. I find that much better then say someone like BCspace who has looked at the same evidence and has failed to rationally think about it. He just maintains his assertions. The whole priesthood ban was not racist may be the most irrational argument I have come across on these forums.

[Guest]

He is not the first I have met in the church or even in other religions that recognize the physical evidence does not support certain religious claims but maintains beliefs for other reasons, one of which is simply based on spiritual or even faith. My experience is that they tend to be intelligent and rational people. Hey they have already rationally concluded current evidence does not support some of their beliefs.

But is he the first you've met who've combined that with a goal to deceive society and cause problems for the sheer fun and spice of it, and then preaching in the name of love no less?
I'm not aware of anyone (but stemelbow) who takes it to that level.

[_stemelbow]

I'd take BCspace or WisdomSeeker over Stemelbow anytime.
There's a marked lack of consciousness to do harm on the part of BCspace, which lack of conscious awareness excuses him. The conscious deliberance and goal behind such a person as Stemelbow just scares me and makes me very uncomfortable.

I scare you? Pep pep, another support for how my "mind games" have worked wonders on you.

[_Kishkumen]

I don't see in stem this desire to "deceive society" that you attribute to him. From his point of view, he is coming here to defend his faith against those whom he deems to characterize it unfairly. The fact that he acknowledges that evidence for the antiquity of the Book of Mormon is insufficient is not tantamount to confessing that he is all about deceiving society. Stem believes in Mormonism. He does not see himself as consciously selling snake oil.

So, I really don't get the drama here. Long before I quit participating in the LDS Church, I had concluded that the Book of Mormon was not likely an ancient text. That does not mean I immediately jumped to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was the Bernie Madoff of 19th century frontier America. To this day I believe that there is plenty of room in the history to see Smith as a legitimate prophetic figure and founder of a major religion that, in the final analysis, probably does more good than harm in the world.

[_stemelbow]

I don't see in stem this desire to "deceive society" that you attribute to him. From his point of view, he is coming here to defend his faith against those whom he deems to characterize it unfairly. The fact that he acknowledges that evidence for the antiquity of the Book of Mormon is insufficient is not tantamount to confessing that he is all about deceiving society. Stem believes in Mormonism. He does not see himself as consciously selling snake oil.

So, I really don't get the drama here. Long before I quit participating in the LDS Church, I had concluded that the Book of Mormon was not likely an ancient text. That does not mean I immediately jumped to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was the Bernie Madoff of 19th century frontier America. To this day I believe that there is plenty of room in the history to see Smith as a legitimate prophetic figure and founder of a major religion that, in the final analysis, probably does more good than harm in the world.

In a way, he's giving me waaaaayyyy too much credit in thinking I'm attempting to scam society. everyone knows I'm far to simply-minded to attempt anything like that.

I should just let this go, but its been far too fun in light of Runtu's quote in my sig. I can't help myself sometimes.

[_Themis]

I'd take BCspace or WisdomSeeker over Stemelbow anytime.
There's a marked lack of consciousness to do harm on the part of BCspace, which lack of conscious awareness excuses him. The conscious deliberance and goal behind such a person as Stemelbow just scares me and makes me very uncomfortable.

I had to read his statement more then once to see if what I was reading was accurate.

I agree with ya there, in the academic sense. But what fun would it be if we always had to rely on stiff logical conclusions on everything? We'd have no Mormons, no Christians of any brand, and no non-religionists. We'd all be the same.

Thus, I must maintain, for diversity if for nothing else, the best answer to the fact that there is no horse evidence in the Book of Mormon time frame is that there must have been horses.

I think this may be his way of dealing with an issue in which he now knows cannot be defended through secular means at this time but still wants to maintain belief. Many others maybe would not have phrased it the way he did. Many members are in this group and out of that group I think many eventually change their beliefs while many may maintain them for the most part. Maintaining irrational beliefs knowing the evidence does seem illogical, but it is understandable based on other factors that include how much they may feel they need to believe or on other interpretations from spiritual experiences that they do not want to change or reevaluate(at least not yet).

At least with stem you can have a decent discussion, where with Bcspace most of the time you cannot. I think stem is in a better position to reevaluate his beliefs where I cannot see this with BCspace any time in the next million years. :)