Response to Jockers, Criddle, et al., Now Available

[_mikwut]

Now this has just gotten ridiculous.

First, Dan marg has called every person she's ever discussed with dishonest, and poor in critical thinking. It has become meaningless, juvenile and silly.

Second, marg, your ridiculous displays of the very worst critical thinking are off the charts. Ad hoc simply means making stuff up without corresponding evidence to support it. If you can't see that present in the S/R theory and your defense of it, well ridiculous and other adjectives just don't get there.

Next, your peurile dismissal of the Book of Mormon witnesses for no evidential reasons other than you believe they are making extraordinary claims and are too interested is obnoxious. It complete ignores the historical facts of each witnesses descriptions. They make no extraordinary claim in describing the translation process. There is nothing extraordinary about simply describing a man sticking his head in a hat and dictating a rather monotonous feigned elizabethean scripture. Particularly when there testimony lines up with the historical facts (116 pages), other independent testimony, and the dictation evidence. The Conn. witnesses do not.

When does your supposed scientific acceptance get to throw the only science we have out the window because you like the Conn. witnesses better? And then call others dishonest? Absurd.

It has been quite clear to objective parties reading this thread that the logical, reasonable arguments have been clearly won by Dan. This isn't even close.

my best, mikwut

[Bedlamite]

...
Now if you could just point out for me where, just exactly where, in the America's this great civilization lived...

I asked this question in Book of Mormon study class.

Here is the answer I was given:

The Nephite record gives an account set in the "Land of Promise,"
that land which is choice above all others and overshadowed by wings.
It is the same land in which Adam and Eve dwelt -- It is the land
from which Enoch's Zion was lifted up into the heavens -- It is the
land from which Father Noah launched the ark in which the only
remnant of the First Dispensation survived the great deluge.
It is the land of our first inheritance -- the patrimony of the first
patriarchs -- the land over which no king shall ever rule -- the
land of liberty and the rightful property of the Saints of God.

I was once so naïve as to think I could repeat that description in
an advanced graduate studies class held by a reputable university.

Now, even the professors at Graceland University in Lamoni, Iowa
have disavowed the teachings of my childhood.

Now, only in Provo, Utah can I obtain a firm answer -- (and only
from Bro. R. Meldrum can I solicit an even firmer answer)...

UD

[_Uncle Dale]

...
the logical, reasonable arguments have been clearly won by Dan.
...

Yes -- he and others have convinced the world that the Book of Mormon
had a single author. One writer who composed it in the early 19th century

They have obviously won.
We who professed multiple authorship have obviously lost.

Thus saith Occam's razor -- henceforth and forever, amen and amen.

UD

[_mikwut]

Hi Dale,

Your red herring rhetoric of "Occan's razor" ignores that it is evidenced by real evidence and not speculation.

regards, mikwut

[_GlennThigpen]

Hi Glenn, okay I accept all the science that tells us that the Book of Mormon is exactly what it claims to be. A history of the literal ancestors of the Native Americans who populated the land saved solely for them by God, during the period of a thousand years ending 400 A.D. Translated from the direct record on the gold plates. I accept that there were many millions of them, that they built great cities and were a significant civilization - exactly as explained within the Book of Mormon. That there were great wars and many deaths.

Now if you could just point out for me where, just exactly where, in the America's this great civilization lived...

Well, since science has not yet answered those questions, I cannot answere them myself. However plausible locations have been proposed. But I am fairly certain you know that.

However, we are not really discussing that in this thread. It is suppossed to be about the S/R theory.

Glenn

[_Uncle Dale]

Hi Dale,

Your red herring rhetoric of "Occan's razor" ignores that it is evidenced by real evidence and not speculation.

regards, mikwut

Actually, I never brought up the subject, until it had been talked to
death here in many dozens of postings. It is not my contribution to
the discussion. I'm only paraphrasing the assertions of my betters here.

One author = simple theory = favored by Occam.
Several authors = complex = rejected by Occam.

Gather together any 100 non-Mormons who have even the slightest
knowledge of the book, and they'll tell you that it was written by the
guy who invented Mormonism -- Brigham Young, or whatever his name
was. Gather together 1000 such people, and then perhaps one or two
of them will say that they heard that part of the book was written by
some 19th century clergyman -- but that this explanation has been
disproved by the experts.

So -- the Brodieites have won. The rest of us have lost the argument.

UD

[_mikwut]

Dale,

Gather together any 100 non-Mormons who have even the slightest
knowledge of the book, and they'll tell you that it was written by the
guy who invented Mormonism -- Brigham Young, or whatever his name
was. Gather together 1000 such people, and then perhaps one or two
of them will say that they heard that part of the book was written by
some 19th century clergyman -- but that this explanation has been
disproved by the experts.

So -- the Brodieites have won. The rest of us have lost the argument.

Right, so those that have lost the argument should post like it.

regards, mikwut

[_GlennThigpen]

So -- the Brodieites have won. The rest of us have lost the argument.

UD

Somehow I don't think that you actually believe that.

Glenn

[_Uncle Dale]

So -- the Brodieites have won. The rest of us have lost the argument.

UD

Somehow I don't think that you actually believe that.

Glenn

Well -- there is such a thing as losing battles but still winning
a war. During my lifetime the Brodieites will always win. But
perhaps during my grandkids' lifetimes the multiple authorship
of the Book of Mormon will be demonstrated so convincingly
that all arguments will be over.

What do you predict?

UD

[_Uncle Dale]

...
those that have lost the argument should post like it.
...

A few weeks ago I received an e-mail from an irate LDS mother,
demanding that I remove from the web all of my anti-Mormon
"pornography" (as she termed the 1834 Howe book, etc.)

I directed her to archive.org and the Google Books sites, as being
repositories of far more such stuff than what I have provided. She
never replied --- I assume that her kids' computer still has a block
against my sites.

That should be punishment enough for losers like myself, I'd think.

UD