Adam and Eve?

[_Patriarchal gripe]

There does seem to be an answer which in context raises a couple of other questions. But you'll have to attend the temple to hear it directly. In a nutshell either Satan did not know all the details of what was supposed to be going on, or he was just being a petulant child to HF in his explaination of why he was doing what he was doing; pretending to be ignorant.

You've lost me, there. I don't remember Satan pretending to be ignorant, and I don't understand how he did not know all the details of the Plan of Salvation. The church teaches that he was present, and presented his own plan, during the council in heaven. He doesn't have the veil of forgetfulness that we do, so he can remember back through the eternities. He would know that the Plan of Salvation would require that we all come to earth and gain bodies. All he would have had to do was not play his part and tempt Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, or better yet, do everything in his power to make sure they didn't eat the fruit.

Please elaborate on the point you were trying to make in the last post.

[_Madison54]

You've lost me, there. I don't remember Satan pretending to be ignorant, and I don't understand how he did not know all the details of the Plan of Salvation.

Exactly!

In fact I remember Satan stating (when he was questioned about what he was doing) that he was only doing the same thing that had been done in other worlds.....sounds like he had full knowledge and understanding of what was taking place.

[_Patriarchal gripe]

Exactly!

In fact I remember Satan stating (when he was questioned about what he was doing) that he was only doing the same thing that had been done in other worlds.....sounds like he had full knowledge and understanding of what was taking place.

So he must be in on the game? The only thing I can figure, is that God really is the tyrant God who wants an exclusive club filled with fans, and he must have offered Satan and his 1/3 a parole after they have finished their job in this universe.

Perhaps God was a Lucifer in another universe, who won his parole so he could start his own show, set up a system to hand-pick worshipful, celestial sheep who don't think for themselves, and he needed a Lucifer to fulfill the plan, to assist in duping a small, select band of worshippers.

Boy, I could get used to this religion building stuff. Let's see, if I can just convince a few folks I had a vision and come up with a new book of scripture...hmm....

[_paulfisher]

Just so we all know...
http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

Shepherds: "Don't look at any other Bible translations sheep, we have you right where we want you."

[_subgenius]

Just so we all know...
http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

Shepherds: "Don't look at any other Bible translations sheep, we have you right where we want you."

hardly an appropriate citation....just so we all know
http://LDS.org/scriptures/tg/devil?lang=eng

[_Patriarchal gripe]

Speaking of Lucifer, I have heard that the early Bible writers didn't write or think about Satan, that it was added in by Jerome in the 4th Century BCE or by other early church leaders, but it seems like there are other New Testament references to Satan/Lucifer. Didn't Jesus tell Peter to "get behind me Satan" or words to that effect? Are these uses of Satan in the New Testament just added later by Bible writers? Any other references?

[_bcspace]

Well no, Satan is found in the Old Testament quite a few times and much of that MSS predates Christ.

[_paulfisher]

Just so we all know...
http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

Shepherds: "Don't look at any other Bible translations sheep, we have you right where we want you."

hardly an appropriate citation....just so we all know
http://LDS.org/scriptures/tg/devil?lang=eng

I don't think you read the article. Satan is alive and well ALTHOUGH Lucifer is NOT his name nor is the Latin word lucifer even a proper noun. The word is found ONE time in ONLY the KJV of bibles except the MKJV and the LITV where the mistranslation has been corrected.

by the way, all of you with a Strong’s Concordance, look up this word Lucifer. Right after the word Lucifer we are given a definition before we ever go to the Dictionary to find the meaning. Here is what you will find: Lucifer (lu’sif-ur) {1} Title applied to king of Babylon.

This word "Lucifer" appears no other place in Scripture.
Lucifer is the Latin Vulgate translation of the word "xosphoruos" in the Septuagint, which is a Greek version of the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12.

The actual word in question is Strong’s #1966 which is heylel, from 1984 [halal] (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star.

The mistranslation goes back at least to John Wycliffe's English Translation of 1395 AD because instead of having the Hebrew MSS they only had St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate.

In my extensive research the best Bible translation of this verse is found in the Concordant Literal Version - CLV: Isa 14:12 "How you have fallen from the heavens! Howl, son of the dawn! You are hacked down to the earth, defeater of all nations!" This is as perfect a translation as probably can be made into English from the Hebrew.

Not only are the Scriptures here NOT speaking of Satan, the Latin word lucifer NEVER belonged there.

No one has to believe me, just do the research if you are interested in the truth. I spent weeks three years ago researching just this ONE mistranslation. It's all factual.

Almost no one was aware of this mistranslation in Joseph Smith's time as well as the many other translation errors found in the most popular Bible in the world - the KJV.

All it does is prove that the Book of Mormon was NOT inspired by God and Joseph Smith simply made it up along with placing the same KJV translation errors into it.

Did you know that there is a man walking around SLC saying that he is the new Mormon prophet and has translated the rest of the Book of Mormon? I have a copy and it reads just like Joseph's and with the same type of Jacobean English grammatical errors all through it because he along with Joseph never bothered to study the Jacobean English that William Tyndale used to write his Bible translation which was published in 1535 AD. and which became the Coverdale, Matthew, Great, Geneva, Bishop's and finally the King James Version.

Discovering that the Church is phony is rather easy (although it was quite shocking for me) when and IF one doesn't have the Church's doctrines as idols of their heart i.e. if you want the Church to be true it WILL be true to you, I know that for a fact. I started to let go of those idols and went through the research because it is a process God had planned for me. The truth though is NOT found by the discovery of the falseness of the Church, "just so we all know" :-).

[_Equality]

I don't think you read the article. Satan is alive and well ALTHOUGH Lucifer is NOT his name nor is the Latin word lucifer even a proper noun. The word is found ONE time in ONLY the KJV of bibles except the MKJV and the LITV where the mistranslation has been corrected.

by the way, all of you with a Strong’s Concordance, look up this word Lucifer. Right after the word Lucifer we are given a definition before we ever go to the Dictionary to find the meaning. Here is what you will find: Lucifer (lu’sif-ur) {1} Title applied to king of Babylon.

This word "Lucifer" appears no other place in Scripture.
Lucifer is the Latin Vulgate translation of the word "xosphoruos" in the Septuagint, which is a Greek version of the Hebrew of Isaiah 14:12.

The actual word in question is Strong’s #1966 which is heylel, from 1984 [halal] (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star.

The mistranslation goes back at least to John Wycliffe's English Translation of 1395 AD because instead of having the Hebrew MSS they only had St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate.

In my extensive research the best Bible translation of this verse is found in the Concordant Literal Version - CLV: Isa 14:12 "How you have fallen from the heavens! Howl, son of the dawn! You are hacked down to the earth, defeater of all nations!" This is as perfect a translation as probably can be made into English from the Hebrew.

Not only are the Scriptures here NOT speaking of Satan, the Latin word lucifer NEVER belonged there.

No one has to believe me, just do the research if you are interested in the truth. I spent weeks three years ago researching just this ONE mistranslation. It's all factual.

Almost no one was aware of this mistranslation in Joseph Smith's time as well as the many other translation errors found in the most popular Bible in the world - the KJV.

All it does is prove that the Book of Mormon was NOT inspired by God and Joseph Smith simply made it up along with placing the same KJV translation errors into it.

Did you know that there is a man walking around Salt Lake City saying that he is the new Mormon prophet and has translated the rest of the Book of Mormon? I have a copy and it reads just like Joseph's and with the same type of Jacobean English grammatical errors all through it because he along with Joseph never bothered to study the Jacobean English that William Tyndale used to write his Bible translation which was published in 1535 AD. and which became the Coverdale, Matthew, Great, Geneva, Bishop's and finally the King James Version.

Discovering that the Church is phony is rather easy (although it was quite shocking for me) when and IF one doesn't have the Church's doctrines as idols of their heart i.e. if you want the Church to be true it WILL be true to you, I know that for a fact. I started to let go of those idols and went through the research because it is a process God had planned for me. The truth though is NOT found by the discovery of the falseness of the Church, "just so we all know" :-).

Your research is incomplete. You have forgotten the chief source of information about Lucifer. Yes, I speak of the book of Beggar's Banquet 1:1, which reads:

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint

[_Nightlion]

If Satan is not Lucifer, meaning light bearer, how come God depicted him holding up a torch sitting on sides of the North of The Apocalrock?


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