I postulate that Man came first. The first Gods pulled themselves up by the bootstraps (ala a Tower of Babel experience) and there were many casualties. Now, after some generations of Gods, the method of Uplift has been perfected and made more efficient. The Gods create, by guided evolution, men in the express image of themselves (possibly to extend to all humanoids).
The "method of Uplift has been perfected"? You means the gods played around with various methods of becoming even more perfect and efficient?
Please define what is meant by gods becoming "more" perfect. Is this like getting to the end of infinity and then stepping one step further, even more infinite? I don't get it.
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC
The "method of Uplift has been perfected"? You means the gods played around with various methods of becoming even more perfect and efficient?
And even before they became Gods, yes.
Please define what is meant by gods becoming "more" perfect. Is this like getting to the end of infinity and then stepping one step further, even more infinite? I don't get it.
To go from mortal homo sapiens (or humanoid equivalent) to immortal, relatively all powerful and all knowing homo sapiens. Perhaps they first built a Tower of Babel so to speak, which could be a metaphor in this case for all manner of things technological or psychological.
bcspace wrote:Now, after some generations of Gods, the method of Uplift has been perfected and made more efficient. The Gods create, by guided evolution, men in the express image of themselves (possibly to extend to all humanoids).
Is that a reference to the Uplift series by David Brin? If so, interesting.
I will go ahead and add my "two cents" to this topic since it to me is a very interesting one! I remember two statements that Brigham Young made regarding this topic. The first was that, there never was a time when there were no gods, and the second was that, it would be easier for an ant to count all the grains of sand on all the beaches of the world than it would be for us to discover the first great cause of all things. Needless to say, I have thought about these two statements quite a bit. If we think of time (and more particularly to the cycle of godhood) and compare it to a ring, as Joseph Smith previously stated, it has no beginning and no end. We also know from scriptural accounts that a spirit can go backward or forward in time relatively to us mortals here on earth. We also know that even though that ring at first appearance shows no sign of a beginning, upon closer examination we can see that it obviously did, and needed to have a beginning. Keeping all this in mind, I will state my theory.
At some point on this ring of time, and it is possible that it could have happened at another point or points independently, a great intelligence solicited the aid of many other intelligences to aid him in a great and glorious plan in which ultimate joy, peace, harmony, beauty, and progress could be enjoyed, and with the recruitment of a large number of intelligences which are, as the prophets have taught, in the matter and can control the matter, this great plan of happiness and cycle of godhood began. I guess I could call it my own personal theory of evolution.
bcspace wrote:The first Gods pulled themselves up ...
You know, that same man who is sitting on his cut-into-half tapir (horse) which is drinking from a trough - with the water falling to the ground behind.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
consiglieri wrote:I understand Joseph Smith to have taught that neither God nor man came first, but that both have existed from eternity past and will to eternity future.
The basic stuff of which God is composed (sometimes called "intelligence" by Joseph) is the same stuff of which man is composed.
It was not created, nor could it be. There is no creation about it.
Joseph said the word "created" should better be understood as "formed from preexistent matter"; that matter itself cannot be created, even by God; that the Hebrew word "barau" translated "create" in Genesis is the same word as used in "constructing" a ship.
It's pretty cool when you stop to think about it rather than try to force it into some heresy pigeonhole.
All the Best!
--Consiglieri
I always liked Smith's ideas about eternity, even though I couldn't quite grasp the idea of there never being a beginning.
Of course, scientifically we know there WAS a beginning. Before that there was no time at all. :)
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
My question to you Mormons is simple. If God created all things, then who came first? Man or God? According to this couplet he most likely was a man first. For me it is clear that only God could have come first. But what do you think? I 'd like to see what others think about this.
I postulate that Man came first. The first Gods pulled themselves up by the bootstraps (ala a Tower of Babel experience) and there were many casualties. Now, after some generations of Gods, the method of Uplift has been perfected and made more efficient. The Gods create, by guided evolution, men in the express image of themselves (possibly to extend to all humanoids).
Funny how God didn't seem to know anything about evolution until Darwin came along.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
