Michael Ash - Shaken Faith Syndrome

[_Buffalo]

BKP:

"Be ever on guard lest you be deceived by inspiration from an unworthy source. You can be given false spiritual messages. There are counterfeit spirits just as there are counterfeit angels. Be careful lest you be deceived, for the devil may come disguised as an angel of light.

The spiritual part of us and the emotional part of us are so closely linked that it is possible to mistake an emotional impulse for something spiritual. We occasionally find people who receive what they assume to be spiritual promptings from God, when those promptings are either centered in the emotions or are from the adversary."

He is basically admitting there is no way to be sure.

I was looking for that one the other day - thanks!

[_Themis]

BKP:

"Be ever on guard lest you be deceived by inspiration from an unworthy source. You can be given false spiritual messages. There are counterfeit spirits just as there are counterfeit angels. Be careful lest you be deceived, for the devil may come disguised as an angel of light.

The spiritual part of us and the emotional part of us are so closely linked that it is possible to mistake an emotional impulse for something spiritual. We occasionally find people who receive what they assume to be spiritual promptings from God, when those promptings are either centered in the emotions or are from the adversary."

He is basically admitting there is no way to be sure.

If they are so close to being the same, then could they not just be the same. Emotion have a wide range of types and extremes, so It is reasonable to think it is just the body that is creating the expereince. Do we really know what all the body is capable of?

[_Franktalk]

So, before you can believe, you first have to believe. Do I have that right?

If you need proof before faith it is not faith. If you require proof then you will never lead a spirit filled life on this earth.

[_Morley]

So, before you can believe, you first have to believe. Do I have that right?

If you need proof before faith it is not faith. If you require proof then you will never lead a spirit filled life on this earth.

I'm trying to understand. You're saying to get faith, you have to have faith?

[_Fence Sitter]

I'm trying to understand. You're saying to get faith, you have to have faith?

I think before you can understand you have to understand.

[_Franktalk]

If it so simple then explain the Joseph Smith Book of Mormon Canadian copy right incident. If even Joseph could not discern what chance do you have?

I do not know the exact mechanics but I know when I am visited by the same spirit. A new spirit is just like any stranger. In the case of spirits they need to be tested. John tells us how to do that.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby, know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I don't know the details of the Joseph Smith incident. If indeed it was a man then we all can be fooled.

This test can not be performed on people. They have a wall of flesh between you and them. The flesh can even lie about Christ.

[_Themis]

I do not know the exact mechanics but I know when I am visited by the same spirit. A new spirit is just like any stranger. In the case of spirits they need to be tested. John tells us how to do that.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby, know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I don't know the details of the Joseph Smith incident. If indeed it was a man then we all can be fooled.

This test can not be performed on people. They have a wall of flesh between you and them. The flesh can even lie about Christ.

The test is classical circular reasoning.

[_Drifting]

Well that's all scripture out then...

Do you have a problem with that?

Not in the slightest.
In my experience scripture causes more contention, more confusion and more dissonance than anything else.

[_Themis]

So, before you can believe, you first have to believe. Do I have that right?

If you need proof before faith it is not faith. If you require proof then you will never lead a spirit filled life on this earth.

No one asked for proof. What you do not understand is what the LDS church teaches on the matter. I suspect that since you are a member, that you are a convert to the church. The church teaches that one does not have to have faith in the church or the Book of Mormon in order to ask God if it is true. It says if you ask with a sincere heart and real intent that the HG will confirm it. This is why I am asking you or anyone else that wants to answer how an investigator can know that the HG is actually communicating that the Book of Mormon or LDS church is true.

[_Franktalk]

I'm trying to understand. You're saying to get faith, you have to have faith?

This may be all fun and games here on this thread. But this subject is critical to someone who seeks God. You are without excuse not to have a starting point to seek God and know that there is a God.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

But if pride or the love of the world blinds you then you will not see the power of God in the creation. You will instead see nature as your God. You will see natural forces make the creation. If you embrace the creation as your God then God will respect your choice. If you have no desire to seek God He will not hide from you, but you will never find Him. One can not fool God.

If someone says they seek God yet they love the world then they truly are not seeking. A thought of the brain is not a desire of the heart.