Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

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_Buffalo
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _Buffalo »

bcspace wrote:
You utterly failed to harmonize reality with theology. Not even a nice try.


So how does my hypothesis conflict with what you just quoted?


So to assume pre-Admite races of homo sapiens, and therefore death before the garden state,


“So, Adam was the first man upon the earth, according to the Lord’s statement, and the first flesh also. That needs a little explanation.

“Adam did not come to this earth until it was prepared for him. The animals were here. Plants were here. The Lord did not bring him here to a desolate world, and then bring other creatures. It was all prepared for him, just according to the order that is written in our scriptures, and when it was all ready for Adam he was placed upon the earth.

“Then what is meant by the ‘first flesh’? It is simple when you understand it. Adam was the first of all creatures to fall and become flesh, and flesh in this sense means mortality, and all through our scriptures the Lord speaks of this life as flesh, while we are here in the flesh, so Adam became the first flesh. There was no other mortal creature before him, and there was no mortal death until he brought it, and the scriptures tell you that. It is here written, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.” ( Seek Ye Earnestly, pp. 280–81.)


Blatant contradictions in red.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_bcspace
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _bcspace »

Yes. Notice the animals were here first. According to 2 Nephi 2:22, there was a creative state prior to the garden state and a state of no death has not been applied to it. Also, what is meant by earth? The already created earth as per 2 Nephi 2:22. Also the 1931 statement to which there has never been a statement of later date addressing the issue of preAdamite races of man. There was indeed no mortal death on the (already finished being) created earth until Adam brought it. I agree. So again, were is the conflict?
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_just me
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _just me »

Adam was the first of all creatures to fall and become flesh


Soooo, what other "creatures" are being spoken of here?
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_Darth J
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _Darth J »

bcspace wrote:Yes. Notice the animals were here first. According to 2 Nephi 2:22, there was a creative state prior to the garden state and a state of no death has not been applied to it. Also, what is meant by earth? The already created earth as per 2 Nephi 2:22. Also the 1931 statement to which there has never been a statement of later date addressing the issue of preAdamite races of man. There was indeed no mortal death on the (already finished being) created earth until Adam brought it. I agree. So again, were is the conflict?


bcspace:

The doctrine that there was no death for any form of life upon this Earth prior to the Fall categorically precludes death from being part of the creative process.

P.S. There is nothing in official LDS doctrine that precludes promiscuous gay sex.
_Morley
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _Morley »

BC-If there is no original sin and we are not descended from Adam, why the need for the Garden--or Adam and Eve?
_Buffalo
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _Buffalo »

bcspace wrote:Yes. Notice the animals were here first. According to 2 Nephi 2:22, there was a creative state prior to the garden state and a state of no death has not been applied to it. Also, what is meant by earth? The already created earth as per 2 Nephi 2:22. Also the 1931 statement to which there has never been a statement of later date addressing the issue of preAdamite races of man. There was indeed no mortal death on the (already finished being) created earth until Adam brought it. I agree. So again, were is the conflict?


You didn't even address the contradictions. You're not even trying. Sometimes I think I'm too much of a lazy critic, but then your lazier apologetics make me feel better about myself. Thanks. :)
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Morley
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _Morley »

BCSpace.

Have I typed these out correctly? (If not please explain.)

1) Evolution, as science outlines, is a fact.

2) The Great Flood was local and not global.

3) Death was suspended for a while, but only inside the Garden, about 6000 years ago.

4) We are not descended from Adam and Eve.

5) Adam traveled from one continent to another so the Garden could be in the Mideast while Adam's altar was in the American Midwest.

_________


If we are not Eve's children and the Flood was local, what's the significance of these two events? Why did they even have to happen?

Perhaps Armageddon and the Millennium will be local, limited events, too. Maybe restricted to few blocks in the nastier parts of Laredo, Texas.
_Morley
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _Morley »

Bumping for BCSpace.
_drdrfor
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _drdrfor »

bcspace wrote:So to assume pre-Admite races of homo sapiens, and therefore death before the garden state, is not in conflict with any LDS doctrine. Therefore, as shown by my hypothesis, and those of others, an LDS person may freely accept all science on evolution without fear of coming into conflict with the Church.


Question:? Is it possible for a Mormon to entertain two totally contradictory ideas at the same time?

Answer:? Well, Duh!?? Yeah!
_subgenius
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Re: Nothing died in mortality prior to 4,000 bc.

Post by _subgenius »

DrW wrote:
In other words, you still don't get it.

i do get the irony in your screen-name being "Dr".
But thanks for conceding the point made.

You are still talking about the date that Eve plucked the apple from the tree in the Garden of Eden.

no, you are.
I find, as does the church, the date inconsequential. An exercise in academics, but not one of Gospel importance.

Perhaps it would help if you stepped it up a notch and tried to answer the questions that have been put to BCSpace on this thread (questions which he has so far declined, or been unable, to answer).

or had good cause to not answer, such as tossing pearls among swine.

If you believe that Garden of Eden myth, as you clearly do, can you come up with a natural history and populations genetics time line that fits Adam and Eve in with real world archeological and genetic data?

why would i want to?
The simple answer is yes i can. People are all around. We know that people today came from people yesterday. It is a reasonable conclusion that there were "first" people.
Given that the science of archaeology recognizes that written documents are acceptable forms of "evidence", the scriptures are valid sources of evidence, even without external corroboration.
Genetic variation only occurs in about 10 percent of every human genes...the remaining 90% is identical.
However, more revealing is that you are obviously insisting that a "natural history and populations genetics time line" are what is required for something to be "true"...especially something so historically distant as Adam and Eve.....yet you have no evidence to draw such a conclusion. I posted before that religious folk tend to recognize how science works, but some people, such as yourself, insist on how science has to work.
Robert May (evolutionary biologist), President of Britain's Royal Society stated in 2001
"We share half our genes with the banana" - but genes only make up 2% of human DNA.

The imposition of the scientific method onto religion is a long running fallacy, and inadequacy, of many critics and atheists. The paradigms involved are as apples and oranges.
While one may be content with reducing human existence to complex series of chemical reactions loping around in a bag of skin, imprisoned by the physical laws of the universe, i can not deny the evidence which clearly contradicts that conclusion...the simple fact that a person can choose "otherwise".


More importantly, do you really think that someone who believes in the Garden of Eden myth can really refer to themselves as educated?

obviously i do. the overwhelming majority of scientific, academic, philosophical, theological, and artistic knowledge, invention, and discovery was founded on the work and insights of men and women who had religious beliefs...they may have been at odds with an organized church at one time or another, but all professed a belief in God, and most believed in the Garden of Eden. Just because you have an incorrect notion of God does not mean that everyone else does.
A person who does not recognize this simple truth is inadequate for any sincere discussion on this topic and exposes their rather myopic view of human history and intellect.

And by the way, as I recall, you were one of the folks who had no clue about why rainbows would have been around before the time of the mythical global flood of Noah.

no, i have a clue as to "why" they might have been...there is just no empirical evidence proving that they were...and certainly no evidence that contradicts the archaeological evidence that God created them.
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