Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

[_Tobin]

What has been found in Guatemala that adds credence to that location being the Book of Mormon setting?

Themis and Runtu have been plastering this forum with posts that suggest that FARMS/FAIR claims are responsible for the Guatemala idea. Now, wait for it... wait for it... (I'm just relishing this)... Lo and Behold we have Josepth Smith stating the idea in 1842. ROFL.

[_Buffalo]

...Joseph Smith in 1841 published articles describing the mound builders (based on Josiah Priest's work) as supporting the Book of Mormon...

Wow, you really climbed out on a limb with this one. Guess what? In 1842, Joseph published an Op Ed written by him suggesting Guatemala as a perfectly fine candidate.

15 July 1842: Joseph Smith discusses high civilization in the Americas, uses mound-builders and Guatemalan ruins as an example

NOTE: Page 862 of this issue of the Times and Seasons states: "The Times and Seasons, Is edited, printed and published about the first and fifteenth of every month, on the corner of Water and Bain Streets, Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, by JOSEPH SMITH"
If men, in their researches into the history of this country, in noticing the mounds, fortifications, statues, architecture, implements of war, of husbandry, and ornaments of silver, brass, &c.-were to examine the Book of Mormon, their conjectures would be removed, and their opinions altered; uncertainty and doubt would be changed into certainty and facts; and they would find that those things that they are anxiously prying into were matters of history, unfolded in that book. They would find their conjectures were more than realized-that a great and a mighty people had inhabited this continent-that the arts sciences and religion, had prevailed to a very great extent, and that there was as great and mighty cities on this continent as on the continent of Asia. Babylon, Ninevah, nor any of the ruins of the Levant could boast of more perfect sculpture, better architectural designs, and more imperishable ruins, than what are found on this continent. Stephens and Catherwood's researches in Central America abundantly testify of this thing. The stupendous ruins, the elegant sculpture, and the magnificence of the ruins of Guatamala [Guatemala], and other cities, corroborate this statement, and show that a great and mighty people-men of great minds, clear intellect, bright genius, and comprehensive designs inhabited this continent. Their ruins speak of their greatness; the Book of Mormen [Mormon] unfolds their history.-ED.

This statement was signed "ED," which attributes it directly to Joseph Smith.

...Doctrine and Covenants 128:20 associates Cumorah with the revelation of the Book of Mormon; the verse makes no sense if Cumorah is in Guatemala.

And down comes Runtu's house of cards. CRASH!!! After that disaster, he follows up with an even worse assumption and exercise in selective reading - he takes one simple line "Glad tidings from Cumorah!" and makes that into meaning that the hill Cumorah must be in NY. You do realize that Cumorah is where Mormon buried the Nephite record of which the Book of Mormon is an abridgement. It is in essence the "Glad tidings from Cumorah!" given to Joseph Smith. So, all you are doing is creating some additional fictional meaning here where NONE is stated.

All of that is consistent with Joseph's hemispheric model. The children of Lehi covered the land from north to south and east to west.

[_Tobin]

All of that is consistent with Joseph's hemispheric model. The children of Lehi covered the land from north to south and east to west.

Joseph did not "know" exactly where the Book of Mormon took place and suggested many ideas (not just the hemispheric model only) over his lifetime. Also, he allowed many others to publish competiting theories as well without correction.

[_Buffalo]

All of that is consistent with Joseph's hemispheric model. The children of Lehi covered the land from north to south and east to west.

Joseph did not "know" exactly where the Book of Mormon took place and suggested many ideas (not just the hemispheric model only) over his lifetime. Also, he allowed many others to publish competiting theories as well without correction.

Again, completely consistent with a hemispheric model.

[_Drifting]

What has been found in Guatemala that adds credence to that location being the Book of Mormon setting?

Themis and Runtu have been plastering this forum with posts that suggest that FARMS/FAIR claims are responsible for the Guatemala idea. Now, wait for it... wait for it... (I'm just relishing this)... Lo and Behold we have Josepth Smith stating the idea in 1842. ROFL.

Is that it?
No more evidence other than Joseph mentioned it once?

[_Tobin]

Is that it? No more evidence other than Joseph mentioned it once?

Oh please. I'm not going to get dragged into a long discussion with you about this topic. I was trying to keep my comments narrowly confined to what was stated on this forum that the idea came from FARMS/FAIRS. The Olmec have a lot of interesting parallels to the Jaredites. For example, the civilization dates from 1500 BC or earlier. It shares many characteristic traits with West Africa, Egypt and Nubia like carving giant heads. The examples of the language that we have though extremely limited (only about 186 characters have been identified) are remarkably similar to Libyco-Berber script. Which type of writing we know was used to write languages like Sumerian, Hittite, Assyrian and Akkadian. The people up and vanished in the right time frame for unknown reasons and abandoned their cities to the jungle.

[_Equality]

All of that is consistent with Joseph's hemispheric model. The children of Lehi covered the land from north to south and east to west.

Joseph did not "know" exactly where the Book of Mormon took place and suggested many ideas (not just the hemispheric model only) over his lifetime. Also, he allowed many others to publish competiting theories as well without correction.

Strange that he would know so much about the peoples who inhabited the Americas but not know where they lived, even though he sure didn't have any trouble identifying individuals by name when their skeletons were found, as well as knowing exactly the geographical extent to which they were known by others (Zelph). Here is what his mother said about Joseph's knowledge of the peoples who inhabited the Americas anciently:

During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them." (History of the Prophet Joseph, 1901 edition, Salt Lake City, Utah. Published under the sanction and direction of the late President Joseph F. Smith).

So, he knew all of that but was clueless about where they lived? Odd.

[_Runtu]

Themis and Runtu have been plastering this forum with posts that suggest that FARMS/FAIR claims are responsible for the Guatemala idea.

CFR. What I have said, though not explicitly, is that the two Cumorahs theory and the LGT theory postdate Joseph Smith.

Now, wait for it... wait for it... (I'm just relishing this)... Lo and Behold we have Josepth Smith stating the idea in 1842. ROFL.

CFR on Joseph Smith saying that the hill Cumorah was in Guatemala. I readily accept that Joseph Smith probably believed in a hemispheric model, though that's not entirely clear. That you have missed my point isn't surprising, but then I'm not in the mood to make fun of you or relish anything.

[_Tobin]

CFR on Joseph Smith saying that the hill Cumorah was in Guatemala.

CFR Joseph Smith or the Angel Moroni referring to the hill where the Book of Mormon was buried as the hill Cumorah. The silence so far is deafening.

[_Equality]

I was trying to keep my comments narrowly confined to what was stated on this forum that the idea came from FARMS/FAIRS.

Nobody said the idea that ruins in Central America were posited as evidence supporting the Book of Mormon originated with FAIR/FARMS. What originated with the apologists long after Joseph Smith's day was the "Two Cumorah" theory and the Limited Geography Theory.

The Olmec have a lot of interesting parallels to the Jaredites.

Ok, now you are just being plain silly.