The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

[_Themis]

Where I can see both world views (mine and yours) you can only see yours. This is why everything I say makes no sense to you.

I do not know how handicapped you are mentally so I will tend to just give you milk to drink. I am sure anything else I may say would indeed fly right on by.

It seems you never understand what other people are saying. My earlier point was that people find value without God(whether he exists or not). You come back with links that have nothing really to do with my point. You clearly have no idea what my world view is, and just make assumptions of what you want to view everyone who may not hold to some of your beliefs. This of course is still your own world view and shows lack of understanding of other views. If you know Consig, he is an active believing LDS who clearly can see other views. You might try talking to him for help. :)

This is my first thought as well but I would ask for guidance on the way in. The primary thing to consider is the life of those people. That life is not the flesh and bones but spirit that resides inside. If I could help in any way to bring one of those people to God then of course I would lay down my life. We don't seek these events in our life but when they do happen we are not supposed to run from them.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Frank

They would not be listening to you. They would only think, shut up and get us out of here you idiot.

[_Drifting]

In Frantalks scenario we have seen two types of response.

The spiritual response to the problem saves nobody. They all die.

In the rational, physical response two or three people are saved, minimum.

Hmmm...

In my response I save the baby. That baby goes on to be a leading scientist that develops a solution to world hunger, eradicating child famine from the planet.

The spiritualists amongst us would have sat around talking and praying whilst that baby burned, losing the chance for that baby's impact on humanity.

Your spiritualism has the same impact as peeing yourself in your trousers. You feel all the warmth but nobody else notices.

[_Franktalk]

In Frantalks scenario we have seen two types of response.

The spiritual response to the problem saves nobody. They all die.

In the rational, physical response two or three people are saved, minimum.

The difference between you and me is the emotional response to death. It appears that death is to be avoided at all cost in your view. But death is a doorway in my view. Just how are we to look at death?

Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days; be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

[_Roger Morrison]

Some really good common-sense posts here! Many responding to Frank's illogical, imaginings. . . Just be patient with him, as you are, and I think, that he might find the balm and assurance that others are helping him to understand that in his present state of arrogance he is simply in denial.

[_Dr. Shades]

[MODERATOR NOTE: Roger, please leave phrases such as "illogical imaginings" and "in his present state of arrogance" out of the Celestial Forum.

Thank you.]

[_Franktalk]

Some really good common-sense posts here! Many responding to Frank's illogical, imaginings. . . Just be patient with him, as you are, and I think, that he might find the balm and assurance that others are helping him to understand that in his present state of arrogance he is simply in denial.

I have faced death many times in my life. Something always stepped in and saved me. But before that happened I was ready to end this existence and move along. I did not fear death. One day it will be my time and nothing will stop it. I welcome the end of this path and the start of a new one. I hope to do many things before that day arrives but I accept the will of God. My will does not matter. To become a new creature and learn all of those things which are beyond our imagination is a goal we all should have.

Why is it so important to teach me the truth of what you believe? Why is it so important to spend your time chatting with someone you think is near mad? Is the value in teaching me or is it in the social connection you have with others that share the same mind set you have? It is like a game in which each player tries to get the best digs in and make the finest points. All of this is of the world. The world is such a limited medium. I feel trapped here and have this feeling that communication is way more than we can imagine outside of this flesh.

I wish I could share the experiences I have had. I can talk about them but they fall as empty words in a vacuum of space. I think that one of the things we are to learn is the frustration of trying to get another to learn anything. We exist in a small bubble and we at best cast messages out like a bottle in the sea. Taken by faith and rejected by ignorance. I know how little I know.

[_Drifting]

In Frantalks scenario we have seen two types of response.

The spiritual response to the problem saves nobody. They all die.

In the rational, physical response two or three people are saved, minimum.

The difference between you and me is the emotional response to death. It appears that death is to be avoided at all cost in your view.

No, the difference between you and me is that when an opportunity to save someone from death was presented I took that opportunity, you didn't.

But death is a doorway in my view. Just how are we to look at death?

I know that's your view. I accept that's your view. But your view seems to mean you ignore doing things in life. In your scenario your view of death being a door meant you ignored the chance of saving someone in favour of your (sheryl'), but not necessarily their, spiritual view of the world.

How are we to look at death? Well we have a choice don't we.
You wring your hands and try and help yourself feel good about dying by reading scriptures and trying to find a feeling you ascribe to being spiritual, fair enough that's your choice.

I focus on living life as fully as I can, and helping others around me live life as fully as they can. We will both end up dead, but I will have a smile on my face and a clear conscience when I go. People will tell funny stories at my funeral and laugh about the times we had and the good things (and the daft things) we did together.
I get my joy through being with, doing things with and helping other people (especally family and friends) through good times and bad, by physically doing things.

[_Drifting]

I think that one of the things we are to learn is the frustration of trying to get another to learn anything.

Ironic

[_Franktalk]

No, the difference between you and me is that when an opportunity to save someone from death was presented I took that opportunity, you didn't.

There is a difference between spiritual death and death of the flesh. I place a higher value on anything related to spiritual death but not so with death of the flesh. That does not mean I believe in killing people in some random act of violence. The Kingdom of God is with us today, we can exist in a spiritual state as well as the flesh. When we move along we will change and be way more aware of those things that seem like dreams to us today. But life here will appear to us to be a dream that we had at some point in the past. In a similar way we view our experiences of yesterday the same way. The memories are images and the emotions can be relived but they are not real as we perceive reality.

It seems that you have a problem with my priorities in life. We all do view this existence in different ways. What I see as important you may feel is of no value at all.

[_Drifting]

No, the difference between you and me is that when an opportunity to save someone from death was presented I took that opportunity, you didn't.

There is a difference between spiritual death and death of the flesh. I place a higher value on anything related to spiritual death but not so with death of the flesh. That does not mean I believe in killing people in some random act of violence. The Kingdom of God is with us today, we can exist in a spiritual state as well as the flesh. When we move along we will change and be way more aware of those things that seem like dreams to us today. But life here will appear to us to be a dream that we had at some point in the past. In a similar way we view our experiences of yesterday the same way. The memories are images and the emotions can be relived but they are not real as we perceive reality.

It seems that you have a problem with my priorities in life. We all do view this existence in different ways. What I see as important you may feel is of no value at all.

I don't understand why you are so intent on pigeon holing posters.

Frank, I have no problems with your priorities at all.
Fact is, I don't care about them. They are not important to me.
I'm happy enough to discuss them, but spirituality seems a very selfish emotional track to ride along.

I am trying to understand what benefit 'walking in the spirit' has, other than to make you feel a bit better about yourself. So far I can't see anything tangible.