Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Kishkumen]

Your main mistake is assuming I post here with a desire to acquiesce to your wants and needs. I put out information in a variety of places. Sometimes so others will see it, sometimes so John himself will see it.

My job is not to make you happy.

No, indeed! Your job is to make yourself miserable in the pursuit of some elusive revenge against someone you clearly resent.

You've spent several years on this anti-Dehlin project, James. It is getting old, according to your own words in this thread.

If I try to do you a solid, it's not about me asking you to make me happy. Believe me.

"Why would I do that? Just for fun? You think I just have nothing better to do with my time?" ~ James Patterson

"And now that John's dam has started to crack, maybe it's better for my mental health if I just let the crack widen on its own."~ James Patterson

[Kishkumen]

ETA: Also, I don't blog for Rational Faiths anymore. I actually just noticed they have me still listed as a permablogger. Need to have them take that down.

Well, you are always welcome to post here about anything you like. We have several fora that may suit your taste. Some of them have nothing to do with Mormonism or Ex-Mormonism, both of which you claim to have moved on from.

[Dr Exiled]

You actually have the power to stop at any time. Seriously. Step back from this and return to blogging on Rational Faiths. Here's the thing: we don't care about any of this. We are not fans of John Dehlin, and we are not fans of Rosebud. We have no dog in this fight, and so we would be really open to the evidence that Rosebud has promised for a decade now and has not delivered. Unless you have that evidence, please, don't waste our time. Go back to blogging and leave us alone.

Your main mistake is assuming I post here with a desire to acquiesce to your wants and needs. I put out information in a variety of places. Sometimes so others will see it, sometimes so John himself will see it.

My job is not to make you happy.

ETA: Also, I don't blog for Rational Faiths anymore. I actually just noticed they have me still listed as a permablogger. Need to have them take that down.

Yes, bro, please put up or shut up. This is really about jealousy and nothing more. JD is doing what rosebud cannot as far as podcasting. Big f&%# deal about the emotional relationship the two had. JD wouldn't leave his wife for rosebud and she needs to get over it and you should drop it too.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

She told me the whole story over the phone, then sent me a trove of documents

That does nothing to advance the argument in the public arena.

then sent me a trove of documents

Post 'em, otherwise it's just an unverifiable claim.

But Rosebud asked me not to say or do anything about what I had read.

Oh. Ok.

John has repeatedly violated federal tax code

Did you report him to the IRS?

When Kwaku's video came out

Have you or Rosebud been in touch with Kwaku, the Church, or anyone that'd feed Kwaku any of your JD information?

Rosebud relented and gave me permission to release select documents

That's weird. You're totally not being manipulated at all by Rosebud.

because I realized that the community does a really crappy job of moving on from the bad habits and mindsets that are engrained in them by the LDS Church

You're so close to having some self-awareness, my man.

John has no place being a voice for anyone or anything in the exmormon community.

No argument there, although I'd point out it's the market that determines whether or not JD can make money off the ex-Mormon thing or not. If he's making a living it's akin to saying Mormonism has no place within the Christian marketplace when clearly it does.

- Doc

[dastardly stem]

Jpatterson, I can't figure out why you think you're helping rosebud's case at all. And why the hell do you act exactly like her, say the same types of nonsense things she does and then expect anyone to care or listen? You're making this all murky and crappy and nothing more. You aren't hurting Dehlin with this crap. If you have something put it out there? Why act as if Rosebud's continued texting at John might somehow show she was victimized? I read the stupid texts, realizing John acknowledges there are tons more that he intentionally left out, and see clearly Rosebud long after ties were severed had no concern about abuse or harassment. If anything she harassed him.

my god, I start reading a word or two, or a line or two of your responses and roll my eyes immediately because I can tell its just more of the same nonsense.

What the hell's with your claims that John sexually abused and assaulted her? Why throw that out there? There's nothing there.

What's with your claim that there was a sexual relationship? Did rosebud tell you that? Because if so, she's fooled you. The texts seem to suggest otherwise. I realize it's still possible they had sex, but I've never seen any reason to think that. Even Rosebud, numerous times, said there was no sex.

The best you have here is that John manipulated the situation to get her canned, and then moved on without her, while she was eager to further their relationship. It may be mean or heartless or whatever, but it's not a criminal offense.

[Kishkumen]

Yes, bro, please put up or shut up. This is really about jealousy and nothing more. JD is doing what rosebud cannot as far as podcasting. Big f&%# deal about the emotional relationship the two had. JD wouldn't leave his wife for rosebud and she needs to get over it and you should drop it too.

Nailed it.

Here is my running theory:

Rosebud is an intelligent but troubled woman who was limited both by her Mormon culture and unfortunate events in the past. She is stuck in a loveless marriage. She gets involved in the Mormon Stories cause, and suddenly she is thrust into this thing that a small corner of the world deems to be very important. She throws herself into it, and she falls into a relationship with the alpha male of the pack, John Dehlin. She gets all of these ideas about how she and John will be a power couple doing Ted Talks and interviews for NYT, and then John, damn him, refuses to leave his wife for Rosebud.

She is furious, but her first play is to try to seduce him into bed, so that he will have crossed a line with his wife and won't be able to turn back. John holds firm, and he goes to the head of the Open Stories Foundation board to try to get everyone out of the pickle. This move infuriates Rosebud because she views John as her property at this point, and it is not Joanna's right to mess things up for her. So, Rosebud, having believed she was so close to the brass ring, sees her dream dissolving before her eyes.

She would be OK, and would live to fight another day, if only she had the access and position within the Open Stories Foundation that would allow a new longterm strategy to unfold. But the solution presented freezes her out of any role she could use for real leverage, and now she is totally SOL. That is when she levels the threats to achieve her original goal--to become a talking head activist celebrity--but now without John and rather on the grave of John's dead career. She has been pursuing that path ineptly ever since.

[dastardly stem]

Yes, bro, please put up or shut up. This is really about jealousy and nothing more. JD is doing what rosebud cannot as far as podcasting. Big f&%# deal about the emotional relationship the two had. JD wouldn't leave his wife for rosebud and she needs to get over it and you should drop it too.

Nailed it.

Here is my running theory:

Rosebud is an intelligent but troubled woman who was limited both by her Mormon culture and unfortunate events in the past. She is stuck in a loveless marriage. She gets involved in the Mormon Stories cause, and suddenly she is thrust into this thing that a small corner of the world deems to be very important. She throws herself into it, and she falls into a relationship with the alpha male of the pack, John Dehlin. She gets all of these ideas about how she and John will be a power couple doing Ted Talks and interviews for NYT, and then John, damn him, refuses to leave his wife for Rosebud.

She is furious, but her first play is to try to seduce him into bed, so that he will have crossed a line with his wife and won't be able to turn back. John holds firm, and he goes to the head of the Open Stories Foundation board to try to get everyone out of the pickle. This move infuriates Rosebud because she views John as her property at this point, and it is not Joanna's right to mess things up for her. So, Rosebud, having believed she was so close to the brass ring, sees her dream dissolving before her eyes.

She would be OK, and would live to fight another day, if only she had the access and position within the Open Stories Foundation that would allow a new longterm strategy to unfold. But the solution presented freezes her out of any role she could use for real leverage, and now she is totally SOL. That is when she levels the threats to achieve her original goal--to become a talking head activist celebrity--but now without John and rather on the grave of John's dead career. She has been pursuing that path ineptly ever since.

I think that's about right. And Jpatterson seems intent on making it worse for her. Hey, this all makes me a little sad for her. But man...that's life. You win and lose, and sometimes losing feels like it has lasting effects, hurting people for years down the road.

[Lem]

So many of us here have had doubts about Rosebud's vague allusions to events, and the incessant sock puppet use on multiple forums really doesn't help. Reading the text messages between her and Dehlin just makes her stories told here even less believable. She never shared with us all of the advances she made.

The best you have here is that John manipulated the situation to get her canned, and then moved on without her, while she was eager to further their relationship. It may be mean or heartless or whatever, but it's not a criminal offense.

Agreed, maybe not criminal, but the link to their text messages does seemingly document that someone in power asked their subordinate to leave their job, in order to end or avoid an affair, if I am reading that exchange correctly. At my university, that statement alone would violate our policy against sexual harassment. Rosebud has acted very badly herself, and her actions would likewise violate much, but none of that would mitigate Dehlin's violation, especially since he was apparently the one in power.

[Kishkumen]

I think that's about right. And Jpatterson seems intent on making it worse for her. Hey, this all makes me a little sad for her. But man...that's life. You win and lose, and sometimes losing feels like it has lasting effects, hurting people for years down the road.

Thanks, Stem. I feel badly for everyone involved. James and Rosebud are smart, capable people. I like to imagine them leaving this behind and going off to do good things elsewhere. We would love to have them come around and tell us about the good they are doing in the world. But right now they are consumed with fighting with others, primarily to attack John Dehlin, but I have seen Rosebud attack Sunstone folk on Facebook too. Evidently when they do these things, they think we aren't paying attention, or that we have very short memories.

Fortunately, that is not the case at all.

You can tell people who are hurting and troubled that they need help, but they are getting rewarded by a critical mass of attention and won't be able to help stringing this along for those tasty dopamine hits for pleasure and pain.

[Dr Exiled]

Yes, bro, please put up or shut up. This is really about jealousy and nothing more. JD is doing what rosebud cannot as far as podcasting. Big f&%# deal about the emotional relationship the two had. JD wouldn't leave his wife for rosebud and she needs to get over it and you should drop it too.

Nailed it.

Here is my running theory:

Rosebud is an intelligent but troubled woman who was limited both by her Mormon culture and unfortunate events in the past. She is stuck in a loveless marriage. She gets involved in the Mormon Stories cause, and suddenly she is thrust into this thing that a small corner of the world deems to be very important. She throws herself into it, and she falls into a relationship with the alpha male of the pack, John Dehlin. She gets all of these ideas about how she and John will be a power couple doing Ted Talks and interviews for NYT, and then John, damn him, refuses to leave his wife for Rosebud.

She is furious, but her first play is to try to seduce him into bed, so that he will have crossed a line with his wife and won't be able to turn back. John holds firm, and he goes to the head of the Open Stories Foundation board to try to get everyone out of the pickle. This move infuriates Rosebud because she views John as her property at this point, and it is not Joanna's right to mess things up for her. So, Rosebud, having believed she was so close to the brass ring, sees her dream dissolving before her eyes.

She would be OK, and would live to fight another day, if only she had the access and position within the Open Stories Foundation that would allow a new longterm strategy to unfold. But the solution presented freezes her out of any role she could use for real leverage, and now she is totally SOL. That is when she levels the threats to achieve her original goal--to become a talking head activist celebrity--but now without John and rather on the grave of John's dead career. She has been pursuing that path ineptly ever since.

Great explanation and spot on. If JD needs to take legal action against the scorned, this is the narrative his counsel should push. Not only is it true but it is a common story that plays out time and time again, easily understandable to a jury. I can think of a few possible claims such as defamation or putting JD into a false light. I don't know what damages there are at this point as rosebud's and Jbro's incessant pushing of this nonsense is probably making JD more popular in some respects. It lets him play the victim and gets his name out there a little more.