Blasphemy or Biblical?

[_Franktalk]

As I understand it, the idea that "God would cease to be God" under some circumstances is a uniquely Mormon belief. The publishers of the Nauvoo Expositor didn't like the fact that Joseph Smith apparently taught it, but it was apparently accepted by John A. Widtsoe and Cleon Skousen, among others.

As I heard Skousen explain it, this possibility is due to the belief that God is necessarily subject to at least some natural laws, and also the belief that what he called "little intelligences" pervade the universe, including otherwise inanimate matter. Skousen said that if God acts in a way that is excessively merciful, this will be perceived as unjust by enough of the intelligences that they will essentially vote God out of office. This is why the Atonement required Christ's suffering and crucifixion before humanity's sins could be forgiven.

I don't know how mainstream this idea is within current Mormon thought. Maybe some of the other folks on this board could enlighten me.

This is a news to me. I don't spend much time thinking about becoming a god. I don't know any LDS that do. What I do know is I will continue to learn over the ages and will be more than I am today. Exactly how far that goes is something I don't know. I have heard that this life we live can be viewed as a dream state and when we die we actually wake up from that dream state. Since most of what we do has a spiritual basis I would think that our night dreams are in some way a shadow of something that is more powerful in the spirit world. So if while we are in a night dream state we are limited compared to our awake state I wonder about when we die if we awake and find that we have abilities already we do not know about. But have had them for some time. That seems likely to me.

[_Franktalk]

I would only suggest that you sincerely pray about any decision that you make regarding these important matters.

This is always good advice. But many wrap them self with the world and will not receive any answers to their prayers. Then they will declare that this is some kind of truth and will deny that anyone will receive answers. I have found that I can't provide any comfort to those in this condition. They have placed them self on their path and now reap that fruit.

[_Themis]

I would only say that sometimes things don't always appear to be what they seem. For example, consider how the prophet Abraham was instructed by the Lord to tell pharaoh that Sarah (Abraham's wife) was his (Abraham's) sister! Later, pharaoh found out that Sarah was really his wife. At that time, not knowing all the circumstances, that Abraham was a true prophet of the Lord, and that the Lord instructed Abraham to say that Sarah was his sister, what do you suppose that pharaoh thought? I doubt seriously that pharaoh could have been convinced at that time that Abraham was a true prophet. Most people would have believed that he was a liar, and maybe even a false prophet! A true prophet is always rejected by most of the people of his time. I would only suggest that you sincerely pray about any decision that you make regarding these important matters.

No one expects Joseph to be perfect. His lying though was to more then just those outside of the church. He was also lying to his wife Emma. When we look at the pattern of lying, manipulation, it should become hard to believe he is acting under God's commands. You know the Bible never states God commanded Abraham to lie. If we look at the Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon, etc we see plenty of evidence he was making up his religion.

[_Themis]

This is always good advice. But many wrap them self with the world and will not receive any answers to their prayers.

We expect you to say this to any who might get a different interpretation then you, or those who may realize that it is not coming from God, but ourselves. Do you know what the body is capable of? Do you know what the body is not capable of? I at least am willing to consider this, although it took decades to get there, so I don't expect others like yourself to do likewise. I know how hard it can be.

Then they will declare that this is some kind of truth and will deny that anyone will receive answers.

I don't deny that others can, only that when we look at what they say, we see that it does not fit with the evidence. Why should I believe someones claims when they provide no evidence, and in many cases have plenty of evidence against? There is penty of evidence, whether you see it or not, that Joseph was making it up. As such it makes one reevaluate ones spiritual expereinces, and whether they really were heaven sent. At this point I see that our body's probably are capable on their own. It's also interesting to see that people interpret these expereinces based on how they already believe.

I have found that I can't provide any comfort to those in this condition.

I am not sure how your mostly substance free ramblings are supposed to provide comfort. They would help one go to slept at night.

They have placed them self on their path and now reap that fruit.

And the fruit is good. I am open to the truth. I try to stay open to being wrong. It's not easy, but then it's a lot easier now then as a TBM.

[_Franktalk]

And the fruit is good. I am open to the truth. I try to stay open to being wrong. It's not easy, but then it's a lot easier now then as a TBM.

So please tell me the truth you now have? Where did that truth come from? How do you know it is truth?

[_Themis]

And the fruit is good. I am open to the truth. I try to stay open to being wrong. It's not easy, but then it's a lot easier now then as a TBM.

So please tell me the truth you now have? Where did that truth come from? How do you know it is truth?

I have a good idea about a number of things I think the evidence suggests is true, or an accurate representation of reality. What truths are you referring to. I wonder if you might define how you define truth in case we have different ideas about the word. Also remember that figuring what is not true or accurate can be even more valuable then discovering new truths.

[_consiglieri]

I would only say that sometimes things don't always appear to be what they seem.

And here I thought things always appear to be what they seem.

[_gdemetz]

Sounds to me like some here should really try the Moroni challenge.

[_Tobin]

Sounds to me like some here should really try the Moroni challenge.

You'll find many of the posters here are atheists and/or former Mormons. If they couldn't be bothered to actually speak with God while they were a Mormon, it is doubtful you'll get them to do it now.

[_gdemetz]

Themis, I am surprised. You stated that you are LDS, but that you don't believe that a man could become a god. What is your interpretation of the scriptures mentioned?