gdemetz wrote:Sounds to me like some here should really try the Moroni challenge.
You'll find many of the posters here are atheists and/or former Mormons. If they couldn't be bothered to actually speak with God while they were a Mormon, it is doubtful you'll get them to do it now.
Who ever said they didn't seek God as a believing member. I know I did many times. I took Moroni's promise many times. What's interesting tobin is you admit that you never saw God until after you stopped believing, so I am not sure why you keep getting on others for not seeing God.
gdemetz wrote:Sounds to me like some here should really try the Moroni challenge.
Most here have many times. I just realize that the expereince most likely can be produced by the body. Why should I not consider this possibility, especially when the evidence shows the church is not true?
gdemetz wrote:Themis, I am surprised. You stated that you are LDS, but that you don't believe that a man could become a god. What is your interpretation of the scriptures mentioned?
You are thinking of Tobin who believes in Joseph Smith claims, but does not believe we can become Gods. If you read my posts I am only saying the church is not always honest about what it teaches like on Mormonism 101.
Why do you think you can be God? What kind of ego does a fallen man such as you have to compare yourself to Jesus or his Father and claim to be God? What blasphemy and arrogance does that take to say to yourself that you are equal to all that God is or does? You do know this is the sin that Satan committed as well and why he fell from grace and was cast out of heaven.
Jesus lived a perfect life and example, was crucified on a cross, and rose resurrected on the third day. You can claim none of those things. Jesus followed the example of his father in heaven and did all he had seen his father do. Can you ever claim to measure up to any of that? What kind of God could you ever pretend to be? Could you possibly father a Christ who would look at your earthly life and state it was a perfect example of what to do?
You are guilty of the most heinous of sins to think you can be God and need to repent and humble yourself before God because it is only the humble and pure that can return to be with God. I certainly don't expect anyone that pretends to be God to be there and those Mormons that make such statements have badly fallen into sin.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin, you don't understand the scriptures any more that those who tried to stone Christ for blasphemy when he told them; "Isn't it written in your law, ye are gods." Christ also states, and I will use brackets to help translate the meaning; "To him that overcometh {the world} will I grant {allow} to sit with me in my throne {the throne of Godhood} just as I overcame and am sat down with my Father in His throne" {the throne of Godhood}. It appears to me that this teaching is pretty simple.
gdemetz wrote:Tobin, you don't understand the scriptures any more that those who tried to stone Christ for blasphemy when he told them; "Isn't it written in your law, ye are gods." Christ also states, and I will use brackets to help translate the meaning; "To him that overcometh {the world} will I grant {allow} to sit with me in my throne {the throne of Godhood} just as I overcame and am sat down with my Father in His throne" {the throne of Godhood}. It appears to me that this teaching is pretty simple.
You are confused: Think hard about this. Are you Jesus? Can you do what Jesus did?
I think I have a good handle on the difference between myself and God. Being saved by God and sharing in what God has does not make me God. Being as the 'gods' - it's lowercase for a reason, knowing right from wrong, and having eternal lives does not put me at the same level as God (nor will it ever). It is a simple fact we are not God. We can not do what God has done and being saved (by God) and exalted (by God) can not change that fact. God saves us. We do not save ourselves. That is the difference and one you should consider carefully.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Tobin, yes, it's lower case and that's the way it should be. What these scriptures mean is that we have the potential to be come like Christ, or a God. In fact, we are commanded to be perfect. However, for manyh of us, including myself (maybe especiallly myself), that could take a very long time.
gdemetz wrote:Tobin, yes, it's lower case and that's the way it should be. What these scriptures mean is that we have the potential to be come like Christ, or a God. In fact, we are commanded to be perfect. However, for manyh of us, including myself (maybe especiallly myself), that could take a very long time.
It's a good goal. However, the difference between us and God is that God is always perfect. God NEVER sins and redeems (saves) us. God is a higher order of intelligence (something that is staggering if you think about it) than we are. We should say we can be saved, we can share is all that God has and does, but we are not God nor can we ever be God or do what God does for us. Christians are correct is saying that such things are blasphemy and being ungrateful for what God does for us. As Mormons we should appreciate what God is offering us and not incorrectly state that we are something we can never be. We can be saved and exalted - we can organize spirit children, we can help in the organization of worlds - but all of this will be directed by God, not exalted man.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
Two apologist scourge each other. They are jogging along.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei