Blasphemy or Biblical?

[_gdemetz]

If you are looking for evidences of a spirit in man, I would recommend that you do some research on OBE's (out of body experiences). There are many sites about this on the internet. I just finished looking at one by Graham Nichols. It's entitled, " 20 Years of Exploration and Research into Out of Body Experiences."

[_Drifting]

If you are looking for evidences of a spirit in man, I would recommend that you do some research on OBE's (out of body experiences). There are many sites about this on the internet. I just finished looking at one by Graham Nichols. It's entitled, " 20 Years of Exploration and Research into Out of Body Experiences."

[_bcuzbcuz]

Maybe you wouldn't be confused if you read some of Dr. Cleon Skowsen writings concerning this. New particles have been discovered quite often in recent years, and I am not overly impressed by that, but the aforementioned writings are the only ones of its kind that I am aware of, and these help explain a lot of things which have been previously spoken and written by the prophets.

I remember listening to Cleon Skousen at a Sunday fireside meeting in Los Angeles back when I was an impressionable 15 year old. He had answers to an awful lot of questions about earth's creation and geology. I came away from the meeting believing in many new things that confirmed a young earth.

With time and more maturity I learned that Skousen, a political theorist, often had opinions about things he was not well educated in. Even when Skousen spoke about politics, his ideas were to the far right, he loved spending public funds and believed in running a "tight ship", which meant for the most part that it was his way or the highway.

[_Buffalo]

If you are looking for evidences of a spirit in man, I would recommend that you do some research on OBE's (out of body experiences). There are many sites about this on the internet. I just finished looking at one by Graham Nichols. It's entitled, " 20 Years of Exploration and Research into Out of Body Experiences."

Did you know that the founder of Heaven's Gate started his cult based off an experience he had during an NDE?

Near death experiences are just that - near death. Get back to me when someone actually dies, is cold in the ground, and then comes back to life. NDEs are a manifestation of the cocktail of chemicals that envelop the brain when the body thinks it's dying.

OBEs are the sensation of being outside the body, and again can be triggered by manipulating the brain.

It all comes back to the brain - the one and only source of consciousness.

[_subgenius]

..You still need to demonstrate how chemistry in the brain makes consciousness and choice an illusion. You have yet to do more than assert that this is so.

i have demonstrated this...quite simply as well....but let us try again.

IF consciousness is created by chemistry
THEN it is governed by the same laws that govern chemistry
SO consciousness can not deviate from those laws
THEREFORE agency does not exist
BECAUSE there is no ability for chemistry to choose otherwise

a chemical can NOT choose to react one way or another way.

For example...photosynthesis, a chemical process, changes water and carbon dioxide into sugars and water...it can not "choose" to one day change water and carbon dioxide into Gold and Helium....and then the next day "choose" to change water and carbon dioxide into sugars and water.

Now as for consciousness......what exactly proves that consciousness exists...if consciousness can only be described as the result (or better termed-the product) of complex biochemical processes?
Let us pretend we are at a soda fountain...you take your cup and mix different amounts of each soda into it...i do the same with my own cup...each cup has distinct and varied amounts of a seemingly infinite variety of "flavors" mixed together...but neither has become individual, nor has either become something more than just a collection of 'chemicals'...they are just simply arranged differently than each other and those arrangements are finite and incapable of deviating from their soda-ness....they do not "magically" become something more than soda...something able to act and/or react outside of the nature of soda...neithe of our cups can suddenly "choose" to be coffee....nor do either cup suddenly "realize" anything...they are just more complicated combinations...nothing else.
So, if consciousness is a product of chemical reactions, then it is surely no different than a heart beat, or the complex mechanism that leans a leaf towards the sun...it is simply a function of a series of chemical reactions. At which case, whatever it is that you "think" is telling you that you actually "think" something is not there....your thoughts, feelings, etc..are not "yours" at all, they are just just products of "reactions" that are incapable of reacting any other way. Your consciousness is not consciousness at all..it is just a leaf bending towards the sun.

[_subgenius]

Did you know that the founder of Heaven's Gate started his cult based off an experience he had during an NDE?

oh well, then this must be true for all NDE and cults....great anecdotal evidence!

...Get back to me when someone actually dies, is cold in the ground, and then comes back to life. .....
It all comes back to the brain - the one and only source of consciousness.

yes, i am familiar with the advanced concept you are speaking of here.....hmmmm.....reminds me of something....hmmmm

[_Drifting]

Did you know that the founder of Heaven's Gate started his cult based off an experience he had during an NDE?

oh well, then this must be true for all NDE and cults....great anecdotal evidence!

...Get back to me when someone actually dies, is cold in the ground, and then comes back to life. .....
It all comes back to the brain - the one and only source of consciousness.

yes, i am familiar with the advanced concept you are speaking of here.....hmmmm.....reminds me of something....hmmmm

Is the Mormon view of a resurrected Jesus?

[_Buffalo]

Did you know that the founder of Heaven's Gate started his cult based off an experience he had during an NDE?

oh well, then this must be true for all NDE and cults....great anecdotal evidence!

...Get back to me when someone actually dies, is cold in the ground, and then comes back to life. .....
It all comes back to the brain - the one and only source of consciousness.

yes, i am familiar with the advanced concept you are speaking of here.....hmmmm.....reminds me of something....hmmmm
]

I accept your surrender.

[_Buffalo]

i have demonstrated this...quite simply as well....but let us try again.

IF consciousness is created by chemistry
THEN it is governed by the same laws that govern chemistry
SO consciousness can not deviate from those laws
THEREFORE agency does not exist
BECAUSE there is no ability for chemistry to choose otherwise

a chemical can NOT choose to react one way or another way.

You started with a strawman, and your reasoning degenerated from there. Who is arguing that "consciousness is created by chemistry" exactly?

[_subgenius]

...You started with a strawman, and your reasoning degenerated from there. Who is arguing that "consciousness is created by chemistry" exactly?

strawman? what strawman?
....if only you had a brain



The conscious being a chemical reaction product was a given, by me......so, why was it a given?
simple..because if you do not believe in the supernatural then the consciousness must be natural, and as such it must be an adherent to natural laws. Now, if you consider the consciousness to be a product of something other than the neuro-chemical processes that occur in the brain, then please, provide your proof and evidence that it is....but wait...we already know your position....no straw needed

It all comes back to the brain - the one and only source of consciousness.

viewtopic.php?p=577330#p577330

...or would you rather revise your position and rely on the old standard "we don't know yet" defense...which, my friend, means the "supernatural"....but your faith is admirable.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural

unless you are proposing some sort of other reality that is neither supernatural nor observable/visible?

Nevertheless, you lose.