Fables vs. Restored Truths

[_bcuzbcuz]

It is widely considered that eating meat came about after the "Fall of man" for the obvious reasons...a life without death for all was simply that.

Just where in scripture do you find that man ate meat? Genesis 9:2-5?

You made statements regarding rainbows that, since they aren't mentioned prior to the flood, therefore they came into existence when God said so to Noah, after the flood. Well, same thing applies to eating meat unless you can prove otherwise.

And as Subgenius said earlier: "But the courtesy and burden for proof is always on he who makes the claim..."

[_subgenius]

Just where in scripture do you find that man ate meat? Genesis 9:2-5?

You made statements regarding rainbows that, since they aren't mentioned prior to the flood, therefore they came into existence when God said so to Noah, after the flood. Well, same thing applies to eating meat unless you can prove otherwise.

And as Subgenius said earlier: "But the courtesy and burden for proof is always on he who makes the claim..."

First, i never claimed that the scriptures stated that "man ate meat". (but see the end of this post)
I simply noted that its obvious that meat was not eaten by anyone prior to the fall, because there was no death - and though you may be unfamiliar with the application of a logical conclusion, that is what one look like.
Obviously, the fall having already transpired and since i ate meat yesterday, we have a man eating meat after the fall.

Second, one can not responsibly read Genesis 9:4 without understanding the scriptural message involved. Consider why the admonition of meat - the direct link between life and blood...an association that continues today through the emblems of sacrament.
But this specific "recipe" is not, in fact, a banishment of eating meat, but rather of eating meat with blood in it. see also the specific mention - "flesh with the life thereof...the flesh with its life in its blood" (emphasis mine)
this is echoed throughout the scriptures - Deut 12:16, Deut 12:23, Deut 15:23, Acts 15:20, Lev 17:26

As for your actual inquiry? How about the following example?
Perhaps you can read 1 Samuel 14:34 (emphasis below is mine)
"And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and sin not against the LORD in eating with the blood. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there."

so once again we see that eating with blood is forbidden, but eating the meat is clearly not.
Additionally, i believe Mormon Doctrine continues the divine instruction of eating meat sparingly.

and there you go

[Guest]

Again, when do you believe the fall took place? (Give or take 1,000 years)

I will attempt to answer this. But before I do I realize that many errors have been injected in the scriptures we have so the dates I give are from a study and not from revelation. First of all I throw out the dates from the KJV and use instead the dates from the Septuagint. It seems when the Jews changed their characters in their language this caused errors, and many length of times were changed for some reason.

5810 BC The Fall
3554 BC The Flood
3182 BC Babel
2322 BC Birth of Abraham

5810 + 2012 = 7822 years from the fall.

After the flood I use the population growth rate based on the 400 years in exile. Before the flood the ages of the people were so long that that model is not valid.

70 people went in (Gen 46:27) and 1.5 million came out 400 years later. This makes for a doubling of the population every 27.58 years approx. So from the flood to Abraham is 1232 years. So using the doubling number from scripture we have a world population at the birth of Abraham of many billions of people. So it appears that the population in general was not as robust as the Jews in Egypt. But the numbers clearly support any world population as projected by some.

[_Themis]

Anyway, even though I have found nothing concrete, I believe that not only animals, but man became carnivorous after the fall.

Yet we find that animals and man were eating meat long before Adam. You should read my earlier post of why carnivores could not eat plants to live.

[_subgenius]

Yet we find that animals and man were eating meat long before Adam.

you can't argue both ways

You should read my earlier post of why carnivores could not eat plants to live.

i will pass but it seems like you may be neglecting Divine intervention on behalf of gastronomical sciences.

[_Themis]

Yet we find that animals and man were eating meat long before Adam.

you can't argue both ways

We both know I am not. I am saying that man and animals existed long before Adam was supposed to live, and they, Carnivores and omnivores, were eating meat.

i will pass but it seems like you may be neglecting Divine intervention on behalf of gastronomical sciences.

If you had read what I said, I did indicate that God would have to make changes to the animal such that in a non-meat eating state they would not be carnivores, but would be a different species of animal. The problem is that the evidence clearly shows no changes, and that carnivores have existed for millions of years.

[_Drifting]

Yet we find that animals and man were eating meat long before Adam.

you can't argue both ways

You should read my earlier post of why carnivores could not eat plants to live.

i will pass but it seems like you may be neglecting Divine intervention on behalf of gastronomical sciences.

Sub, when was The Fall of Adam?
(to the nearest 1,000 year period)

[_subgenius]

Sub, when was The Fall of Adam?
(to the nearest 1,000 year period)

you sure are fun.

for those who struggle with concepts in spiritual discernment, please note the following:
"The following chronology, or list of events, is not comprehensive and is meant only to give the reader a sense of the sequence of events"

4,000 BC, around September 21st i think,
but i am not sure how many "years" transpired before the Fall of Adam

[_gdemetz]

Yes, there is nothing concrete in the scriptures to prove that man ate meat before the flood. However, I went on to state my opinion that I believe that man did as well as animals. I also gave my reasons, but that is only my belief since it makes sense to me that if noxious weeds as well as other corruptions took place after the fall, then it would only have been natural for these other corruptions to take place at about the same time.

FrankTalk, I found your article very interesting, as well as courageous, for listing all those dates. I wish that you would go into more detail as to how you came up with those dates, especially in the light of D&C 77 which states that the seven seals represent 7,000 years of the earth's temporal existence. How do you reconcile that?

[_Drifting]

4,000 BC, around September 21st i think,
but i am not sure how many "years" transpired before the Fall of Adam

So, before 4,000 bc there was no death and no meat eating, correct?