Other than the ‘power dynamic’ and completely ignoring Rosebud’s texts, what proof do you have of JD sexually harassing Rosebud?
- Doc
None that I'm prepared to show you. Proof exists, but I have zero reason to trust you with it.
What am I going to do with anything you post in this board? Also, if your intent is to get JD to admit wrongdoing and resign, and you have proof that you’re unwilling to disclose, you ironically just became complicit in JD’s alleged wrongdoing. You're aiding and abetting a wrongdoer. That makes you a wrongdoer now. This is doubly problematic since you claim to have been a victim of sexual abuse. You're now covering for an alleged abuser. That’s beyond the pale.
Thank you RFM and Bill Reel for bringing some clarity to the evidence. It’s incredible how many impartial eyeballs have gone over the same set of evidence, facts and context and concluded the same thing, ie bad judgment aside, not only was there was no direct evidence of sexual harassment, but that Rosebud appears to have acted in bad faith in presenting her case. The blackmail email and text messages tell a clear story, one that unfortunately doesn’t square in any universe with Rosebud’s basic claims. We may never know exactly what John said or did that crossed a line, but with the available evidence on the record, I trust Rosebud less than John.
As everyone but her core, committed fan club always has. RFM and Reel buried Rosebud. She can’t unsend that delusional threat.
Just to be clear here, you have provided evidence of what you see as sexual harassment in one situation, right? I agree with you technically, in the way I mentioned before (sexual interaction in a power differential), but now you are stating there is "a history of sexual harassment." That goes well beyond what you are arguing, so before imagining the outcome of any scenarios, can you clarify what you mean by that?
I have provided some evidence. Not all of it. This board is not a trial. I'm not trying to win you over like a jury, with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
But you continue to question why I keep pursuing this.
I'm telling you it's because of my desire to hold John accountable. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm asking you to put yourself in my shoes for a moment.
If YOU had evidence in your possession that corroborated a charge of sexual harassment, and you knew that the abuser skated on the charge, would you not want to do what you could to protect people? Or would you throw your hands up and say it's just all in the past?
Ok. Your IFs are not relevant unless we are in that situation.
So, how do you expect to hold someone accountable if you won't produce the evidence by which you think they are accountable? Why would you keep such evidence covered up?
What am I going to do with anything you post in this board? Also, if your intent is to get JD to admit wrongdoing and resign, and you have proof that you’re unwilling to disclose, you ironically just became complicit in JD’s alleged wrongdoing. You're aiding and abetting a wrongdoer. That makes you a wrongdoer now. This is doubly problematic since you claim to have been a victim of sexual abuse. You're now covering for an alleged abuser. That’s beyond the pale.
- Doc
Oooh, mental gymnastics. I love it.
You should have gone a step further and proposed that I'm actually working for John as a triple agent.
It's amazing how much trauma Dehlin has left many disaffected Open Stories Foundation members with. Kate Kelly, Kristy Money, James Patterson, Rosebud... The Kristy Money affair really set them out on a crusade.
I can only assume it is because that when working for Dehlin, they transferred all their previous Mormon leadership worship into him. And when they discovered he was a selfish asshole, their brains imploded and began signaling those old alarm bells that they had been duped by John just as they had been duped by Mormonism.
My theory is that people like James Patterson were so angry at Mormonism, so invested in fighting back, that they sought to work at Mormon Stories and fight the war against Mormonism. And now that John betrayed them, they're searching for a new group to channel that rage and fight the new war against the oppressive millionaire John Dehlin and his millions of followers. They can't accept a world where the Mormon Church or John Dehlin use them and lie to them, and they feel so personally attacked that they will lie about him to try and get what they see as justice.
What am I going to do with anything you post in this board? Also, if your intent is to get JD to admit wrongdoing and resign, and you have proof that you’re unwilling to disclose, you ironically just became complicit in JD’s alleged wrongdoing. You're aiding and abetting a wrongdoer. That makes you a wrongdoer now. This is doubly problematic since you claim to have been a victim of sexual abuse. You're now covering for an alleged abuser. That’s beyond the pale.
- Doc
Oooh, mental gymnastics. I love it.
You should have gone a step further and proposed that I'm actually working for John as a triple agent.
So, your nonsense aside, you got nothing. Zero. Playing the victim or getting adversarial won’t distract from the nothingness of your allegations and claims. You literally are bluffing. You’re at the river point in this poker game, and I’m calling you to show your hand. Otherwise you, like Rosebud, will be forced to fold and go home having expended your credibility anteing up with no exit strategy.
It's amazing how much trauma Dehlin has left many disaffected Open Stories Foundation members with. Kate Kelly, Kristy Money, James Patterson, Rosebud... The Kristy Money affair really set them out on a crusade.
Wasn’t the Kristy Money thing something about JD not paying them for a podcast no one listens to? Why didn’t she or ‘they’ just start their own podcast and promote themselves? That’s what I’d do if I wanted to be a podcaster.
It's amazing how much trauma Dehlin has left many disaffected Open Stories Foundation members with. Kate Kelly, Kristy Money, James Patterson, Rosebud... The Kristy Money affair really set them out on a crusade.
I can only assume it is because that when working for Dehlin, they transferred all their previous Mormon leadership worship into him. And when they discovered he was a selfish asshole, their brains imploded and began signaling those old alarm bells that they had been duped by John just as they had been duped by Mormonism.
My theory is that people like James Patterson were so angry at Mormonism, so invested in fighting back, that they sought to work at Mormon Stories and fight the war against Mormonism. And now that John betrayed them, they're searching for a new group to channel that rage and fight the new war against the oppressive millionaire John Dehlin and his millions of followers. They can't accept a world where the Mormon Church or John Dehlin use them and lie to them, and they feel so personally attacked that they will lie about him to try and get what they see as justice.
Being personally abused by someone can be very much like being subjected to an abusive institution. And being reminded of that person when they are a public figure can be much like being reminded of the abusive institution when much of your community is still involved in it resulting in a direct impact on your life. And then watching as both continue to abuse others can be a major catalyst to speaking up about them in the hopes of preventing more trauma.
Yep. And it's spiraled into a narrative that John is an abusive controlling maniac who can destroy careers and lives with a snap of his fingers simply by wielding his immense power and influence.
James Patterson quotes someone saying:
Over the years, I have seen what happens to people who publicly challenge John Dehlin. Past retaliations against those who speak out are often unpredictable and unreasonable. I’d rather not experience that
Rosebud:
At the time I knew I was in danger because of his temper, public position and the many public lies he told, but I did not have a full comprehension of the level of revenge, irrationality and anger to which he could rise.
At the time I was not safe because I understood, to some extent (although not a full extent), what kind of person JD is and was, and what he might do to me because of his guilt.
There is no way Rosebud isn't pulling the strings on this puppet.