Blasphemy or Biblical?

[_gdemetz]

Themis, I think that many in the church have never had a true experience from the Holy Ghost, and so when they get a good feeling, then they assume that it is from the Holy Ghost. I think that that is probably what happened some in the "Dunn" case. Having said that, there are legitimate experiences of the Holy Ghost bearing testimony, and it is unmistakeably scriptural. But, for someone who has had the experience to try to explain it to someone who has not, is like someone trying to tell someone else who has never flown what it is like. I have a suggestion for you and Drifting. Why don't you two, just for a few days, try to stop looking for ways to argue and try to really take Moroni's challenge seriously!

[_Drifting]

Themis, I think that many in the church have never had a true experience from the Holy Ghost, and so when they get a good feeling, then they assume that it is from the Holy Ghost.

How do you tell the difference?

I think that that is probably what happened some in the "Dunn" case.

Except in the Dunn case it wasn't a one off, it was worldwide, over a period of decades, with whole congregations experiencing it at the same time.

Having said that, there are legitimate experiences of the Holy Ghost bearing testimony, and it is unmistakeably scriptural.

How can you tell it is legitimate?

But, for someone who has had the experience to try to explain it to someone who has not, is like someone trying to tell someone else who has never flown what it is like.

Then how can Missionaries explain to investigators what they should experience if, when they take Moroni's challenge the Holy Spirit testifies to them of it's truthfulness?

I have a suggestion for you and Drifting. Why don't you two, just for a few days, try to stop looking for ways to argue and try to really take Moroni's challenge seriously!

Been there and done that.
You just choose not to believe what the Holy Spirit told me because it doesn't agree with what you want to believe...

[_gdemetz]

Themis, I don't believe you have sought earnestly and prayerfully enough. Have you fasted about this?

[_Drifting]

I don't believe...

That's the point, right there...

[_Themis]

Themis, I think that many in the church have never had a true experience from the Holy Ghost, and so when they get a good feeling, then they assume that it is from the Holy Ghost.

That's what the church teaches it's members to do. That's what missionaries do and what they teach investigators like you were to do as well. Now feelings come in a variety of ways and intensities. Some are described as a burning in the bosom, calm assurance, a still small voice, thoughts, impulses, and even more dramatic like visions, dreams hallucinations, etc.

I think that that is probably what happened some in the "Dunn" case. Having said that, there are legitimate experiences of the Holy Ghost bearing testimony, and it is unmistakeably scriptural.

Scriptural? LOL Not sure what you mean by that, but then interpretation of what is scriptural will vary from person to person even within the church. An example is that even you and frank don't agree on everything. Or do you mean scriptural in that you think the experience fits what the scripture says about it. In this case just about anything can be interpreted to fit it. All good feelings. I could look up scriptures to fit all positive feelings, thoughts, dreams, visions, hallucinations, etc.

But, for someone who has had the experience to try to explain it to someone who has not, is like someone trying to tell someone else who has never flown what it is like.

People who fly do tell others what it is like. It may not describe it perfectly, but they can still do it. Members of the church, or other religions like Wicca, do explain their experiences to others, but usually those they think are also believers. It's only when you think you are talking to unbelievers that you clam up. Church publications have lots of stories.

I have a suggestion for you and Drifting. Why don't you two, just for a few days, try to stop looking for ways to argue and try to really take Moroni's challenge seriously!

You should pay more attention to those you want to discuss with or help. That way you would already know I have been on a mission and been an active member serving in the church for decades. I have read and prayed many times. I have had experiences I at one time thought were from the HG. I did this because that is what I was taught to do. Now I have brought up that we have no idea of all that the body is capable of producing on it's own, but believers always want to ignore this one. I try to ignore the arguing and try to stick to discussing it and why I think I may be right.

Themis, I don't believe you have sought earnestly and prayerfully enough. Have you fasted about this?

You should learn to use the quote feature. I never know who you are referring to since you have confused me with drifting before. Now I expected you to say something like this simply because I don't agree with you.

[_gdemetz]

Themis, have you fasted and prayed about this? If so, how long?

[_Albion]

From the orthodox Christian perspective Psalm 82 absolutely does not teach that men can become gods, the great blaphemy of the Garden. Psalm 82 is an impeachment of unjust judges who are officially called "gods". The gods spoken of in the Psalm are the Judges of Israel, so called as the official representatives of God on earth. Their authority gives them power to act in the name of God and similarly as types of gods in dispensing God's judgements. The Psalm berates them because they are unjust and contrasts their unjust humanness with the "superhuman dignity of their calling." Jesus picks up this theme in John 10;34-35.

[_gdemetz]

I don't know where you get all that BS from! The scripture clearly states that you are gods and all of you are the children of the Most High! Jesus even quotes that same verse in John 10:33-35 to the Jews who try to stone him! The same principle in also taught in Revelation 3:21 clearly!

" To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me on my throne, even as I have overcome and am sat down with my Father in His throne."

[_Themis]

Themis, have you fasted and prayed about this? If so, how long?

I already said that I did. Can you not even read others posts. You really are lazy. As for length, it varied, and it did not always focus on the question of the Book of Mormon being true, but around greater spirituality. It took decades to realize that the body is more then capable, an area you really don't want to evaluate fairly since it can never give you want you want. Now this gradual realization did not cause me to change beliefs about LDS truth claims, but gradual awareness of evidence that proved some of the core LDS claims were not true. The Book of Abraham was essentially the smoking gun.

[_Drifting]

Themis, have you fasted and prayed about this? If so, how long?

I already said that I did. Can you not even read others posts. You really are lazy. As for length, it varied, and it did not always focus on the question of the Book of Mormon being true, but around greater spirituality. It took decades to realize that the body is more then capable, an area you really don't want to evaluate fairly since it can never give you want you want. Now this gradual realization did not cause me to change beliefs about LDS truth claims, but gradual awareness of evidence that proved some of the core LDS claims were not true. The Book of Abraham was essentially the smoking gun.

Actually the Book of Abraham was the smoking gun, the bloodied candlestick; knife; lead piping; and Colonel Mustard jumping up and down on the head of my belief in the Billiard Room.