inquiringmind wrote:1854 was three years before the MMM, was this a fulfilled prophecy?
Col. William H. Dame, the ranking officer in southern Utah who ordered the Mountain Meadows massacre, received a patriarchal blessing in 1854 that he would "be called to act at the head of a portion of thy Brethren and of the Lamanites (Native Americans) in the redemption of Zion and the avenging of the blood of the prophets upon them that dwell on the earth". See Patriarchal blessing of William H. Dame, February 20, 1854, in Harold W. Pease, "The Life and Works of William Horne Dame", M.A. thesis, BYU, 1971, pp. 64–66. In June 1857, Philip Klingensmith, another participant, was similarly blessed that he would participate in "avenging the blood of Brother Joseph". See Patriarchal blessing of Philip Klingensmith, Anna Jean Backus, Mountain Meadows Witness: The Life and Times of Bishop Philip Klingensmith (Spokane: Arthur H. Clark Co., 1995), pp. 118, 124; Salt Lake Cutoff and the California Trail; Spanish Trail Cut a Roundabout Path Through Utah; Scott 1877.
One investigation you might like to do is see how often these types of blessings were given. If this was common practice at the time then it's only natural that one of the blessing receivers would fulfill what was written in their blessing.
sleepyhead wrote:One investigation you might like to do is see how often these types of blessings were given. If this was common practice at the time then it's only natural that one of the blessing receivers would fulfill what was written in their blessing.
If indeed the prophecy was given before the events one has to wonder if indeed the prophecy triggered the events. If I received a prophecy that I was to win the lottery I would buy a ticket. In that sense I helped fulfill the prophecy. I have to wonder if I would have bought a ticket anyway. The fact that I am now aware of the lottery in a way that I had not thought about before the prophecy has changed the future. What is important is to find out if the patriarch gave this same blessing to others not involved. That to me is more on point. This may be nothing more than a false shotgun blast.
Sounds more like a self-fullfilling prophecy to me. This just might have led him to believe he was justified in doing what he did. The Old Testament is filled with examples of people killing people and justifying it by saying that god ordered it.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
inquiring mind wrote:.....Col. William H. Dame, the ranking officer in southern Utah who ordered the Mountain Meadows massacre, received a patriarchal blessing in 1854 that he would "be called to act at the head of a portion of thy Brethren and of the Lamanites (Native Americans) in the redemption of Zion and the avenging of the blood of the prophets".
I have seen no convincing evidence that the people slaughtered at MM were in any way connected with the lynching of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. Most of the immigrant party were from Arkansas and not Illinois where the Smith deaths occurred. Are there any real sources to indicate any involvement by the Fancher party travelers?
Albion wrote:But surely, if there is no provable connection between the immigrants and the killings of the Smiths the whole point is moot.
If God is all-knowing, He doesn't need proof, and He'd know many things humanly unprovable, so I don't follow your reasoning here.
Why would no (humanly) "provable" connection between the immigrants and the mob violence in Carthage render "the whole point" of the question I asked in the OP moot?