I guess that means, seeing as how you believe in God, you must have seen Him with your own eyes, yes?
From a scientific point of view seeing is believing. Like a solar flare can be seen by many people and the events do repeat. Coupled with this the repeatable experiment. This is knowing in a general sense. But knowing at a personal level science does not attempt to define or embrace. A personal experience is valid for that person but not in a general sense. Science deals with things that can be known in a general sense. Your attempt to mix general experience with personal experience and then flavor with the scientific method is not appropriate. But you know this so I wonder what was the purpose of your comments?
Frank, you said that from a scientific point of view one should only believe that which one personally observes. I was just assuming you were going to be consistent when it came to a belief in God. Silly me.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:Frank, you said that from a scientific point of view one should only believe that which one personally observes. I was just assuming you were going to be consistent when it came to a belief in God. Silly me.
Actually science is not consistent as well. They keep talking about dark matter and dark energy but they have failed to observe it. They suspect it is there because it is necessary to have their theories work. But other theories don't require it. But without observation and a measurement it is only suspected to be there. Yet many in science say it is a fact. I want to know how is that different than me when I say there is a God because the universe did not create itself? You see, science and I in some areas both rest on faith. You it seems to me do not seem to believe that for some reason.
Much of science is based on the scientific method and rest on pretty solid ground. But there are large areas of science that are unable to directly observe or experiment with the past or large bodies in space. So the best is indirect observation and guess work. Don't get me wrong I think many astrophysicist are brilliant. But their work is a house of cards that could fall at any moment because what they think is happening is not directly tested. The same is true of the past where direct observation is not possible and testing is not possible as well. The best they have is indirect observation and guess work as well.
Most people do not dive into the sciences enough to know that there are large parts of science based on guess work. They are led to believe that all of science is solid and rest on the scientific method. Yet another indication that our schools have fallen into disrepair.
Drifting wrote:Frank, you said that from a scientific point of view one should only believe that which one personally observes. I was just assuming you were going to be consistent when it came to a belief in God. Silly me.
Actually science is not consistent as well. They keep talking about dark matter and dark energy but they have failed to observe it. They suspect it is there because it is necessary to have their theories work. But other theories don't require it. But without observation and a measurement it is only suspected to be there. Yet many in science say it is a fact. I want to know how is that different than me when I say there is a God because the universe did not create itself? You see, science and I in some areas both rest on faith. You it seems to me do not seem to believe that for some reason.
Much of science is based on the scientific method and rest on pretty solid ground. But there are large areas of science that are unable to directly observe or experiment with the past or large bodies in space. So the best is indirect observation and guess work. Don't get me wrong I think many astrophysicist are brilliant. But their work is a house of cards that could fall at any moment because what they think is happening is not directly tested. The same is true of the past where direct observation is not possible and testing is not possible as well. The best they have is indirect observation and guess work as well.
Most people do not dive into the sciences enough to know that there are large parts of science based on guess work. They are led to believe that all of science is solid and rest on the scientific method. Yet another indication that our schools have fallen into disrepair.
Frank, have you seen God with your own eyes?
If yes, what does He look like? If you haven't then you must place your belief in Him as being equal in value as peoples belief in the hiristoricity of the Pyramids.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:Frank, have you seen God with your own eyes?
If yes, what does He look like? If you haven't then you must place your belief in Him as being equal in value as peoples belief in the hiristoricity of the Pyramids.
I have not seen God with my own eyes. Neither have I seen a single atom. But I am pretty sure they both exist.
As for the history of the pyramids you can get some great opinions here.
Many have tried to convince me that the path to knowledge is through the processes that man has developed. In a very limited way they are correct. If I studied a moving projectile I would use the scientific method and eventually arrive at the correct relationship between various forces and mass. But if I wanted to learn the purpose of my being here and living in the flesh I must deal with spiritual factors not suited to be examined by the scientific method. Spiritual matters are private and as such no experiment can be made to show the world in some repeatable experiment a cause and effect spiritual process.
Some reject that a spiritual path exist. That non-belief of course stops any manifestation of a spiritual event. One must take that leap of faith before one can experience a known spiritual event. I know that I had many spiritual events in my life before I came to Christ. I always told myself that I had some kind of sixth sense or was lucky that some thought entered my head at just the right time to save my life or save the life of another. But knowing what I now know I now can look back and see that the Holy Spirit has always been with me. I just thought it was me and not another. I think this is true of everyone. But some embrace the world so much so that they will actually block the communication with God's Spirit. Or they embrace the spirits of devils which will fill them. Then the Holy Spirit will not come to them because they are filled with evil. We must clean our house and invite the Spirit of God to dwell with us. Our life can be filled with spirituality if you desire it. But it does require to let go of this world. This is something some will not do.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Only after I walked in the spirit could I know that the Spirit had always been with me. Yet another personal proof of God if you allow it to happen.
Franktalk wrote:Only after I walked in the spirit could I know that the Spirit had always been with me. Yet another personal proof of God if you allow it to happen.
How could you tell you were walking in the Spirit of God and not being tricked into thinking that by the Devil?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Drifting wrote:How could you tell you were walking in the Spirit of God and not being tricked into thinking that by the Devil?
Since God is based on love and the devil is based on hate it is easy to tell them apart. But many confuse the Word of God and see a hateful God. Scripture is written for those who wish to see. Whether it is hate or love. Your desire will lead you to see what you wish.
Drifting wrote:Frank, have you seen God with your own eyes?
If yes, what does He look like? If you haven't then you must place your belief in Him as being equal in value as peoples belief in the hiristoricity of the Pyramids.
I have not seen God with my own eyes. Neither have I seen a single atom. But I am pretty sure they both exist.
As for the history of the pyramids you can get some great opinions here.
Interesting that you don't want to engage the evidence, but instead bring up things like dark energy, which is very new scientific research going on, and make assertions about it you don't really know or are backing up. I did expect you would again run away from real discussion.
gdemetz wrote:That would really be nice, FrankTalk, but I wouldn't get my hopes up too much that he would allow it!
Neither of you are willing to discuss how you tell which is which when it comes to the spiritual. I suspect drifting was a believing member of the church for a long time. I was and certainly lived an LDS life.